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Pistols or Steyr's ?

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  • Pistols or Steyr's ?

    As we all know the Pistol order has been put on hold, apparently the Sig was the model they picked at a cost of €630 each to replace the 2,000 Brownings we have, anyway while looking through the minutes of Dail today I noticed the following:

    "Mr. M. Smith: I am advised that the Defence Forces have conducted studies and technical trials with a view to considering the requirement to replace the Browning 9mm semi-automatic pistol which is currently in service. The concept of a personal defence weapon such as a pistol is undergoing a radical reappraisal from a military perspective. New calibre weapons are currently being designed with a requirement to provide protection for an individual for up to 50 metres away.
    However, the Defence Forces are in the position that this requirement may be met with a short barrel version of the Steyr rifle currently in service and, therefore, a new personal defence weapon programme may not be necessary. Due to ongoing developments, it has been decided by the military authorities to defer a replacement programme until a common industry approach evolves with respect to newer systems under development and the full potential for the use of the short barrel Steyr rifle is developed."

    So what do you all think, would a short barrel Steyr be a better choice bearing in mind the type of duties that require a pistol? Or is the above a load of bull?


    :D :D

  • #2
    It's a load of bull, they need a smaller charge for use in close quarters or the risk on ricochet related casualties will increase exponentially, hence the NS boarding parties are using BAPs instead of Steyrs
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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    • #3
      It's a load of bull.
      Some reasons:

      1. A short barrel steyr is only marginally smaller overall than a standard rifle.


      2. The "new calibre weapons" mentioned by the minister are things like the HK PDW or the FN P90, definitely not a standard 5.56 rifle with a slightly shorter barrel.

      3. The requirement will always exist for a holstered sidearm for orderly officers etc.
      .
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      With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

      Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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      • #4
        Depends On Use, Obviously......

        Where close confinement is the norm, e.g; Armd Car/Tank crews, or pilots,
        a small sidearm would be more practical. As Yellowjacket says, there is very
        little difference in length, between the standard AUG and carbine version as above.
        Mind you, I think the carbine was designed with armour crews in mind....
        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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        • #5
          how long before the SIGs would be brought into service,roughly?

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          • #6
            This is a picture of a 9mm short barel Steyr. It could be this he's on about. It dosen't require any chopping, it's just a matter of changing the barrel, etc.

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            • #7
              Both

              I note many of the super warriors in Afghanistan and Iraq carried pistols along with their M4 carbines and many APC crews carried pistols in shoulder holsters. Likewise cops in Heathrow carry MP5s and pistols, see the pattern here. The pistols is still an essential weapon.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by FCA Trooper
                how long before the SIGs would be brought into service,roughly?
                This is the issue, with the order delayed, it could take any amount of time.

                It's funny isn't it how this amazing weapon technology revolution (that seems not to have taken place anywhere else - NATO standard 9mm sidearm ammunition will not be changing anytime soon) co-incides with the current run of cutbacks?

                Minister Smith also claims that despite the BAP's being 40 years old, they still work. I know of matchlock pistols from the 1500's that "still work", should these be issued too?
                .
                .
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                With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mayfield Man, I think they're referring to full calibre carbines rather than the 9mm SMG conversion.

                  I saw the 9mm SMG version in Clancy once, they were trialed at the same time as the rifle as a possible Gustav replacement. It's supposed to be more accurate than other 9mm SMGs, but to be honest I thought it was a bit bulky & awkward for an SMG.
                  "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                  • #10
                    Keep the bap....if its worked for 40 years then surely its good for another forty years.......As for AFV crews barely enough room for a bap never mind an SMG
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #11
                      The new calibre weapons mentioned are things like;

                      HK MP7/PDW 4.6x30mm http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm


                      FN P90 5.7x28mm http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm


                      Both of these have been around for a while now, and neither have shown any real sign of being adopted by any major army.
                      .
                      .
                      .
                      With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                      Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Germans will adopt the H&K PDW apparantley.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #13
                          I think the developments that they may be talking about is a change of calibre. NATO currently is deciding either to keep 9mm as a pistol round or get something different such as lets say .40. My understanding was that the purchase of new pistols for the DF was on hold pending the decision (Ireland not wanting to be left out in the cold of course). More recently, I read (Irish Independant) that the pistol purchase had been cancelled along with 15 of the 40 New Mowags due to "Budgetary Constraints".

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                          • #14
                            NATO is unlikely to replace 9mm as it's standard pistol calibre, it's too widespread and it would cost member states a fortune to re-equip themselves. If NATO accepts a new calibre it's going to be for a Personal Defence Weapon like the ones listed above, not a pistol.
                            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                            • #15
                              well I'll be pistol whipped!

                              Hi to all,
                              There is no way a short barrel Steyr is going to work in certain units or any other similar weapon for that matter.This is due to constraints on space i.e. working in a enclosed enviroment, I know of one unit (who shall remain nameless) who would not be allowed to carry a weapon larger than a pistol because of it's location. The pistol order was cancelled purely for budgetary reasons and nothing else. I would love to get a new pistol becuase my Bap has gone through two barrels and a new slide or three in the time it's been in service not to mention new grips, trigger, sear, bent, springs, lever..... wait!! Does this constitute a new pistol or what?? :D
                              ... it were better not to have lived at all than to leave no trace of one's exsistence behind.
                              Napoleon

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