RDF on Camp. My Experience.

[Sandbag]

[MOD: Thread split from "RDF Officer" thread. J]

AATWT, after I have experienced what the RDF is like from my first camp, I couldn't agree with you more.

During the 2 weeks susposed ''full-time training'' we actually did very little training at all.

Most of the NCOs were incompetent. One day the CQ informed one of our CPLs that we weren't on rations for the day. The CPL simply said ''don't worry they'll get a take-away or something''. Some were unable to get up in the morning to march us to the dining hall for breakfast. It was funny seeing these ''NCOs'' trying to act like real ones. They think they're shit hot! They had room inspections, boot inspections, uniform inspections etc after training and while I didn't have a problem with any of this ( actually enjoyed it to be honest ) , I thought it was funny that some of these NCOs had scruffy beards, open pockets, uniforms not ironed etc and they were bolloxin ourselves for not being perfect. It seems to me that these NCOs are have not been taught to ''lead men'' but instead watched Full Metal Jacket or something!

It's their responsibility to ensure that we are not only well trained, but also well looked after. My dad is a serving PDF NCO. He taught me how to iron my uniform, wear it correctly, polish my boots, shape my beret .... the list goes on. He couldn't believe that I didn't have a clue how to do any of it. He said my NCOs should have showed me this, that's what they're there for. I was lucky I had a proper NCO helping me at home and I passed on this to other lads. But it's shit when you see a lad getting a bolloxin over his uniform when A) he was never shown how to do it properly in the first place and B) the cocky NCO doesn't have a clue himself. The worst part is the lads wanting to make a career in the RDF believe that they should behave like their ''NCOs''.

As for actual training I won't even go there.. lets just say that I understand where the whole bagger thing came from. In wartime, given the training I have received, they only thing I could be used for is a sandbag for the PDF or for carrying PDF sandbags!!!

Let's face it lads, the RDF IS a joke. IMO this is down to poor leadership full stop! You complain about lack of equipment, poor conditions etc. The PDF themselves also went through this back in the day. But instead of posting about this on some forum, they make the most of it and ''hacked it''.This is why they truly are a capable, well-trained, professional force. Deal with it and move on.

LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

[Chief Bubblewrap]

I know where you're coming from. I was lucky in that respect, where i got great instruction from my immediate NCOs, but i'm aware of how lucky i was. More needs to be done for the RDF recruit. All it takes is preparation. Its ridiculous that recruits will go on a week or fortnight's training, and do nothing other than practise for toets and go through theory on patrol harbours... with one boot and a second hand shirt.

Again, i don't mean to pick on officers, but at the end of the day it's their responsibility that these things don't happen.

There is hope however, the Eastern BTC are doing a great job on the POTS, and have churned out fantastic NCOs. Its noteable what so few can do in so little a timeframe. The potential is there in the reserve, but it needs leadership...

something it CLEARLY lacks...

[Joshua]

That wasn't recruit camp either! lol

You said " from my first camp". Explain please.

[apod]

[MOD: Thread split from "RDF Officer" thread. J]

AATWT, after I have experienced what the RDF is like from my first camp, I couldn't agree with you more.

During the 2 weeks susposed ''full-time training'' we actually did very little training at all.

Most of the NCOs were incompetent. One day the CQ informed one of our CPLs that we weren't on rations for the day. The CPL simply said ''don't worry they'll get a take-away or something''. Some were unable to get up in the morning to march us to the dining hall for breakfast. It was funny seeing these ''NCOs'' trying to act like real ones. They think they're shit hot! They had room inspections, boot inspections, uniform inspections etc after training and while I didn't have a problem with any of this ( actually enjoyed it to be honest ) , I thought it was funny that some of these NCOs had scruffy beards, open pockets, uniforms not ironed etc and they were bolloxin ourselves for not being perfect. It seems to me that these NCOs are have not been taught to ''lead men'' but instead watched Full Metal Jacket or something!

It's their responsibility to ensure that we are not only well trained, but also well looked after. My dad is a serving PDF NCO. He taught me how to iron my uniform, wear it correctly, polish my boots, shape my beret .... the list goes on. He couldn't believe that I didn't have a clue how to do any of it. He said my NCOs should have showed me this, that's what they're there for. I was lucky I had a proper NCO helping me at home and I passed on this to other lads. But it's shit when you see a lad getting a bolloxin over his uniform when A) he was never shown how to do it properly in the first place and B) the cocky NCO doesn't have a clue himself. The worst part is the lads wanting to make a career in the RDF believe that they should behave like their ''NCOs''.

As for actual training I won't even go there.. lets just say that I understand where the whole bagger thing came from. In wartime, given the training I have received, they only thing I could be used for is a sandbag for the PDF or for carrying PDF sandbags!!!

Let's face it lads, the RDF IS a joke. IMO this is down to poor leadership full stop! You complain about lack of equipment, poor conditions etc. The PDF themselves also went through this back in the day. But instead of posting about this on some forum, they make the most of it and ''hacked it''.This is why they truly are a capable, well-trained, professional force. Deal with it and move on.

LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

Let us train you and you will see the difference! Well said !!!

[Fianóglach]

[MOD: Thread split from "RDF Officer" thread. J]

AATWT, after I have experienced what the RDF is like from my first camp, I couldn't agree with you more.

During the 2 weeks susposed ''full-time training'' we actually did very little training at all.

Most of the NCOs were incompetent. One day the CQ informed one of our CPLs that we weren't on rations for the day. The CPL simply said ''don't worry they'll get a take-away or something''. Some were unable to get up in the morning to march us to the dining hall for breakfast. It was funny seeing these ''NCOs'' trying to act like real ones. They think they're shit hot! They had room inspections, boot inspections, uniform inspections etc after training and while I didn't have a problem with any of this ( actually enjoyed it to be honest ) , I thought it was funny that some of these NCOs had scruffy beards, open pockets, uniforms not ironed etc and they were bolloxin ourselves for not being perfect. It seems to me that these NCOs are have not been taught to ''lead men'' but instead watched Full Metal Jacket or something!

It's their responsibility to ensure that we are not only well trained, but also well looked after. My dad is a serving PDF NCO. He taught me how to iron my uniform, wear it correctly, polish my boots, shape my beret .... the list goes on. He couldn't believe that I didn't have a clue how to do any of it. He said my NCOs should have showed me this, that's what they're there for. I was lucky I had a proper NCO helping me at home and I passed on this to other lads. But it's shit when you see a lad getting a bolloxin over his uniform when A) he was never shown how to do it properly in the first place and B) the cocky NCO doesn't have a clue himself. The worst part is the lads wanting to make a career in the RDF believe that they should behave like their ''NCOs''.

As for actual training I won't even go there.. lets just say that I understand where the whole bagger thing came from. In wartime, given the training I have received, they only thing I could be used for is a sandbag for the PDF or for carrying PDF sandbags!!!

Let's face it lads, the RDF IS a joke. IMO this is down to poor leadership full stop! You complain about lack of equipment, poor conditions etc. The PDF themselves also went through this back in the day. But instead of posting about this on some forum, they make the most of it and ''hacked it''.This is why they truly are a capable, well-trained, professional force. Deal with it and move on.

LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

Probably one of the most honest threads I have ever read on this web.
The chap has told the truth and no bull***t. The RDF has a lot to do and many years to catch up with the PDF as far as training goes. And to put it bluntly God help me if I ever have to serve overseas with some of the RDF members I see about the Curragh at the moment. Maybe it is just some units, but in general I feel the standard of your average RDF Soldier/Officer must improve before me or anybody will take them seriously.

It was along time coming, but had to be said.

[cruise]

hmmm. im very angry to hear about your experience as a recruit, however, i disagree with your comment about the rdf being a joke and the lack of respect you show talking about nco's. fair enouugh you got a rough deal but in my time with the rdf iv met some fantastic nco's an some not so fantastic... it is their job to train us well but we all have to pull together to be the best. if you dont know something ... find out from someone who knows ... if your unhappy with an nco ... go to another one ... if your unsatisfied with issued equipment ... get on with it or get your own ... if your nco wont march you to the dining hall (heaven forbid).... march your selves (we are meant to be soldiers aint we??) if you want to be a sand bag for pdf then thats what you will be (i pray pte's in rdf dont really think that) fair enough we dont have enough supplies we dont even have enough bodies but if we stand together an help bring up the standard by learning from experiences like yours and making the most of what we have things will get better, im glad to hear you showed some of the lads how to do their uniforms because thats what we need but dont rag on your nco's do your pots course an make shure things are done to your standard (which sounds fantastic) im a dedicated reservest an no matter how shitty things get im always prepared to HACK IT im confident to say my coy could match the pdf an nco one tought me the lesson UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL which i did not fully understand until i had to deal with some of the challanges rdf has thrown my way.
we are the future of rdf an so what if things are hard we can deal with it

[Itchy]

Firstly to Sandbag, I would be disgusted too if thats the standard of training I recieved.

Probably one of the most honest threads I have ever read on this web.

.
Honest? You didnt need to read it here to realise the reality.

The RDF has a lot to do and many years to catch up with the PDF as far as training goes.

The knowledge simply isnt there coupled with poor leadership and see the current situation. The fact is our guys will never have the experience you guys have, it needs to be passed on, taught and learned by the RDF. Thats not going to happen without PDF input.

At the end of the day we're on the same team, what grinds me is that you are willing to stand by and accept the current standard. Applies to PDF CO's. Would they accept the same standard from a PDF Bn? No. So why the difference?

And to put it bluntly God help me if I ever have to serve overseas with some of the RDF members I see about the Curragh at the moment. Maybe it is just some units, but in general I feel the standard of your average RDF Soldier/Officer must improve before me or anybody will take them seriously.

I totally agree with you. If the DF turned around and asked me to go overseas with the training I have, I dont need to tell you which finger they would be getting. And also they are seriously putting lives at risk if they contemplate putting a reservist out there at the moment.

IMO opinion if there is a shit RDF soldier who can't do his job, its not his fault. It is the fault of the CoS right down to his training NCO. It all comes down to the standards one is willing to tolerate or not as the case maybe.

[hptmurphy]

having been in both systems as a recruit..and tried to train FCA individuals..and being pulled for being too hard on them ..I gave up on it...went on to training two to three stars but they had been so neglected as recruits gave up on that as well just went back to doing exercises and bringing out switched on guys who could be guided and would work for the team

The whole RDfv training thing needs to be adresss the whole training concept has to be driven by PDF quailfied full time paid expieenced instructors..the time for laying games is over especially in units who will become deployable.

Over the years all the technical qualifiactions and recce , driving gunnery were run the PDF by local arrangements..it showed on PSO s in the past..no inference to other units..PDF caders are not there to train ..never were..purely admin and support..you need to get your people into the places and the courses ..and work hard with these guys earn there repect.....it has to be a two way respect thing..you them for there knowqledge..and them you for your time and commitment..so waht if some don't make the grade..at least this assessment will be made by instructors have no personal loyalties to people and who perform these actions everyday.....


and this is coming from a very disillousned soon to be ex bagger!

[apod]

Sandbag, i applaud your frankness considering where you are.Their tends to be alot of ostrich syndrom amongst some of the rdf folks who post here and i am suprised they havent tried attacking your honest assesment yet. Anyway the whole leadersip/competence thing is a big issue.If a pdf training nco was too pissed to get up to do his /her job they wouldnt be an instructor for much longer! I have made this point before but a two week nco's course is a joke!i know the rdf eastern bde does things differently but imho even that is still too short.When you consider that the pdf cse is now 9 months long it kinda puts things in perspective doesnt it!
Now none of that is the fault of the individual reservist ,it comes from on high! Perhaps things will get better now that rdf seem to be allowed to go on pdf courses?i dunno.
most motivated pdf nco's would love to train up the rdf.After all its in our own interest!And it would keep us off cash escort for a while:biggrin
I am very disappointed to hear that some "priveleged" rdf members ( who shall be know as walts)think they are better than the pdf.to describe pdf recruits as wasters is a gross insult to the young men and women who volunteer to serve their country both at home and in some of the worlds worst shitholes! How dare they! These walts would never hack the conditions we have to endure(no decaf lattes or bagels in liberia)and would only bge a liability if god forbid they were ever deployed alongside us.todays pdf recruits come from all backgrounds.some are more educated than the officers.Wasters my arse!

[Bravo20]

Firstly Sandbag, the example shown by your NCOs that you described is a disgrace. That type of "instruction" should not be tolerated regardless of the colour beret being worn. (I am particularly angry about the food thing). When I did my pots course (way back in the mists of time) while it may not have covered a lot of tactics it did cover MOI and leadership. Those are the skills/talents that will make an NCO, everything else is just learning the drills.

"IMO if there is a shit RDF soldier who can't do his job, its not his fault. It is the fault of the CoS right down to his training NCO. It all comes down to the standards one is willing to tolerate or not as the case maybe. - From Itchy"

I have to disagree with you there, what was described by Sandbag is not the fault of the CoS. It is caused by complete and utter laziness and a complete lack of understanding of the responsibility and maturity that leadership requires. We have to take responsibility for our own failings instead of always blaming someone else.

[FMolloy]

I have made this point before but a two week nco's course is a joke!i know the rdf eastern bde does things differently but imho even that is still too short.

If there was employment protection there the RDF would have the chance to run longer courses.

We're all sounding like broken records.

[Itchy]

I have to disagree with you there, what was described by Sandbag is not the fault of the CoS. It is caused by complete and utter laziness and a complete lack of understanding of the responsibility and maturity that leadership requires. We have to take responsibility for our own failings instead of always blaming someone else.

Its a simplistic view but if you start at the NCO's, they obviously havent been trained properly, their Sgt is not upholding the standards of an instructor etc. There is a stream of succesive failures all the way to the top.

[trellheim]

Some excellent points

I don't wish to denigrate or take away from the posts they show a large amount of frustration

i have to ask - is there anything new here that we didn't know already ?

[Joshua]

i have to ask - is there anything new here that we didn't know already ?

Nothing new, just new members of the RDF churning out the same stories that older generations have lived through and are now content to put up with.

The question is why is it still happening and why are the powers that be, who have seen these genuine gripes before, not taking heed but appear content to allow things to remain unchanged?

Of course we have discussed all of this before as well.....anyone want to come fishing tonight?

[ODIN]

Well Sandbag, you've stirred ip the nest here. I am an NCO, and what you went through(or didn't go through) is a disgrace. But the blame cannot just be placed with the CPLs. The are responsable for not being able to get out of bed because of drink, IMO CPLs should not drink on recruit camps, and if they are to drink it should not be in the presence of the Recruits. Also if you are not going to be able to get out of bed the next day and do your job then don't drink.

Officers are in charge of making up a training programme that is to be followed by the NCO's, if the programme is sub standard it is not the NCO's fault as he or she is only doing what is on the programme, or in your case what was not on the programme. If you get the PDF, you'll see that they have their fair share of hurry up and wait too