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Defence Force breaches of discipline soar by over 70% to 1,600

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  • Defence Force breaches of discipline soar by over 70% to 1,600

    15/01/04


    By Caroline O’Doherty

    BREACHES of discipline in the Defence Forces increased by over 70% last year, resulting in more than 1,600 charges being brought against members of the Army, Navy and Air Corps.


    In total, 1,636 charges were dealt with summarily, or without recourse to trial, through the military’s internal disciplinary procedures between January and December 2003, resulting in penalties ranging from a warning to 28 days’ detention.

    In addition, nine members accused of some of the most serious offences were tried and convicted by court martial, resulting in three discharges, two detentions, two fines, one demotion and one loss of seniority within rank.

    Figures for 2002 were only available for the first 10 months of that year during which there were eight court martials, resulting in one discharge, and 789 summary charges, working out at an average of 79 per month compared to 136 per month last year, an increase of 72%.

    The size of the force remained constant at approximately 10,500 members in the two years.

    Spokesman for the military, Commandant Brian Cleary, insisted discipline was not a major problem in the Defence Forces but said he could not immediately account for the increase in charges as last year’s figures had just been compiled.

    “It certainly would appear that there is a large discrepancy between the two years but we would need to have a closer examination of the records before we could put forward an explanation,” he said.

    A military source said some of last year’s increase might be attributable to an increase in overseas missions and a sizeable intake of new recruits. The settling down period which followed sometimes threw up personnel who had difficulties adjusting to strict new regimes, the source said.

    A spokesman for Defence Minister Michael Smith had no comment to make, saying discipline enforcement was a matter for the Defence Forces rather than the Department of Defence.

    The incidents that gave rise to the 1,636 charges last year were breaches of various sections of the Defence Acts, which cover offences such as disobedience to a senior officer, ill-treatment of inferiors, neglect of duty, drunkenness, theft, damage to property and misuse of vehicles, vessels or aircraft.

    The military source said the number of charges did not equate to the number of personnel in trouble as most incidents would give rise to more than one charge. It was estimated about 800 individuals were charged in 2003.

    Trials by court martial in 2003 resulted from breaches of four sections of the Defence Acts: violence towards a superior officer, absence without leave, conduct contrary to good order and discipline and “offences punishable by ordinary law” which can include any serious offence normally tried in civilian courts.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/w...dLjt5C321I.asp
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  • #2
    Getting charged and for what?

    [MOD: Thread Merge]

    Was chatting to a mate and we were discussing what you could get charged for in the army such as not shaving, sunburn, answering back NCO's, Mutiny etc.

    But what are the punishments for these type of things?

    I don't want names or specific details but just general information.

    And Joshua, I found this already .

    http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/b...9&postcount=21
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

    Comment


    • #3
      Punishments include (in no particular order):

      Reprimand - Verbal / Written
      Fines
      CB (Confined Barracks)
      Inprisonment

      Comment


      • #4
        You won't be charged for getting sunburnt unless you are unfit for duty by reason of the burn. Its classified as a self inflicted injury.
        No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
        No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

        Comment


        • #5
          Do the Irish military have a military prison like the Glasshouse in Colchester.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes the Irish Army have Military Detention Barracks based In Eastern Brigade with would be the same as a Miltary Prision just worded in a more politically correct i would reckon.
            British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
            Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

            [As the British flag comes down]

            Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

            Comment


            • #7
              Was chatting to a mate and we were discussing what you could get charged for in the army such as not shaving, sunburn, answering back NCO's, Mutiny etc.

              But what are the punishments for these type of things?
              it depends on a lot of factors

              such as who you are- where you are etc

              there is a lot of discretion involved as well and there should be a lot of common sense

              there is a a detention facility in Cathal brugha
              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
              Are full of passionate intensity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeV
                Punishments include (in no particular order):

                Reprimand - Verbal / Written
                Fines
                CB (Confined Barracks)
                Inprisonment
                You of course forgot dishonourable discharge from the DF (or whatever way it's
                worded). Another consideration is how many of these charges involve RDF members (i.e; someone acting the maggot on camp, etc)
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi all
                  Is this just adding up all the bullshit charges as well as the serious ones? You know the kind of stuff you get from some extra-keen NCO who's spring-loaded to the "You're charged!" position. Jesus, the 168s were wheeled out so often on us lot as Apprentos, they lost all value as a threat. They became the equivalent of the local Guard's "feck off home or I'll call yer dad!". I'd be more impressed if the DF actually threw it's weight about more often and got rid of some of the less desirable elements.
                  regards
                  GttC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To be honest I think the advent of A7 has caused this as it has taken the power out of section NCOs to deal with problems in house and that all even misdeameanours end up infront of the Company commader as the whole DF has become so PC there is no alternative.

                    Back in my day..less serious offences were dealt with the depot Bousn by being given the shit jobs..or being invited to the handball alley or a trip around the back of the billets to meet with the famous P.H. who is since long gone.

                    it had its pluses..you respected the guy as it was never going to make your record..and you got such a hammering you were very slow about commiting the offence gain..it did happen every where,

                    Nah its not a break down in discipline..just PC gone mad and its all has to be dealt with in a transparent manner..

                    We had a bloke who got 28 days in the digger for being absent from a ship( Serious shit...).on the way he legged it from the landy..was never seen again...lol

                    funny thing I noticed..any of the blokes I knew who did Digger time never spoke about it afterwards.
                    Last edited by hptmurphy; 4 August 2006, 00:45.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #11
                      I was once part of an escort bringing a chap to Spike island. I was glad it was him and not me! Another thing worth bearing in mind is that a lot of recruits are not actually aware of the Defence Force rules when they first join up and end getting thier card marked for petty things , by an over egar NCO . One young lad i remember was charged for walking across the square.When he was asked why he did so, he replied' nobody told me i wasn't supposed to '. Defence force regulation books were also thin on the ground when i was a recruit ! .
                      Last edited by haribo; 4 August 2006, 10:26.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kermit
                        B and C no longer exist, because you can no longer shoot someone at dawn...
                        What a pity!!!
                        What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by yellowjacket
                          ... ill-treatment of inferiors ...
                          That's a good one. Should that not be subordinates rather than inferiors?
                          As for accuracy, presumably the missile carries MRVs with terminal phase sensors and guidance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hptmurphy
                            Back in my day..less serious offences were dealt with the depot Bousn by being given the shit jobs..or being invited to the handball alley or a trip around the back of the billets to meet with the famous P.H. who is since long gone.

                            it had its pluses..you respected the guy as it was never going to make your record..and you got such a hammering you were very slow about commiting the offence gain..it did happen every where,

                            Nah its not a break down in discipline..just PC gone mad and its all has to be dealt with in a transparent manner..
                            I totally agree. There is only an increase because pepole are less likely to dread the punishment. A7. curse you to hell. I know that if i thought i'd be gettin a hiding from the nco's for such breaches then i know i'd be a lot less likely to act the dickhead. Bring back cpl punishment. He's sorely missed.
                            Trouble, Trouble, I tried to chase trouble but its chasing me.
                            Trouble, trouble, trouble with a capitol T
                            do do do do do do do da do do do. etc etc......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi all
                              One of our seniors got 28 in the Digger, once upon a time. He spent two weeks raking leaves, whitewashing, bulling other people's boots, carrying for the quartermaster,etc, continuously shadowed by two PAs. After two weeks, a finger-wagging from the prison CO and back he came, with a tan. Effect of punishment...nil.
                              Sometimes, the real criminals (fuel thieves, anyone?) get by un-noticed, whilst the rest get the petty stuff....
                              regards
                              GttC

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