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New Pistol for Defence Forces.

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  • #16
    WHat about the newer 2009 version of the P226?

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    • #17
      New Pistol: 45. ACP vs. 9x19mm

      Now that the Department have put the Pistol contract on hold...should they re-evaluate the whole thing. A lot of US units are now moving back to the .45 ACP after 15 years of the M9 and US LEO's are flocking back to weapons like the Para Ordnance and Kimber in droves. Given the ever increasing danger of Irish Overseas ops., should the Army be giving those who use sidearms that bit more stopping power. Historically, the Irish have had strong links to the 1911, i.e. Michael Collins "Squad" were avid fans of the calibre and had the guards been armed from day one, the .45 revolver had been earmarked. I understand that in interests of compatibility with other armies, the 9mm is standard but by the way things are going in the US, how long will this be the case?. Of course for NS and possible Air Marshall ops, there is no question but use the 9mm or lower but in places like Liberia, would a 45. be better. Do the ARW have any 45.'s in their inventory??

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      • #18
        the wing doesnt use a .45 pistol,i think the only short they use is the 9mm sig-sauer p226.
        apparently, the yanks have had a fair few problems with their 9mm pistols because their 9mm round is more powerful than that used by european armies/law enforcement,which results in increased wear-and-tear on their weapons. europe has had less trouble with the 9mm, so i doubt if anyone really feels the need to replace it on this side of the atlantic,as they do in the US.
        anyway, the 9mm is in such widespread use at this stage with armies all over the world that it's hard to imagine the .45 knocking it off the top spot. a lot of armies have purchased new-generation 9mm's only fairly recently (the glock,p226 etc), and they arent about to get rid of them anytime soon.

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        • #19
          Plus most 45 can only carry 6 to 8 rounds in the magazine,while the average 9mm can hold up to 16rounds. Stopping power is fine..but as the change to 5.56 showed,carrying more rounds is far more useful.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Goldie fish
            Something else that must also be considered,though many may consider it trivial, is will the new pistol fit the holsters currently in use?
            The Gardai have this difficulty at present as most,if not all of issued holsters are for the revolver,and the type of holster sold by Protak is unsuitable for the SIG already in use by certain garda units.It has a taller frame and will not sit as well as other automatics,such as the Walther P7 previously used by the Gardai specialist units. The solution for most firearms users has been to order a personal holster from the US.
            The fact is that any new pistol will spend the majority of its time in a holster,and all decisions will depend on this.
            Its taken long enough to change the pistol,having to change holsters again to facilitate a new weapon would not go down well with the Q.
            That's got to be a uniquely Irish angle on the whole issue. Deciding on a $1000 purchase (OK, up to $1000) based on reluctance to buy a $30 holster to accompany it.

            Please, let someone with some sense be in charge for a while !!!

            Later.
            No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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            • #21
              Well one holster may be $30.But considering the quantity that would have to be replaced,and the tight fistedness of the GS(who are reducing the numbers of qualified firers as a cost saving measure) will make it an issue. And who will take all the Leather 38 holsters off their hands?


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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              • #22
                Cal Tanker, all along I had the image of you owning a Glock, even if it is known as Cuddly SIG.
                Originally posted by strummer
                That's got to be a uniquely Irish angle on the whole issue. Deciding on a $1000 purchase (OK, up to $1000) based on reluctance to buy a $30 holster to accompany it.
                But how would they explain throwing out perfectly good holsters to the department?

                [MOD: Is there an echo in here?.Read the last line of Goldies post]
                Last edited by Victor; 3 February 2004, 22:53.
                Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                • #23
                  But by that logic wouldn't they be complaining about disposing of the .38 revolvers too !!! Perhaps they could throw in the holsters as part of a job lot if they could sell the pistols. (yes, I know there is some directive about not selling them, perhaps they could donate them to a "poor" police force.)

                  Didn't the same issue come up every time they changed uniforms?

                  Or radios?

                  Or squad cars?

                  Later.
                  No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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                  • #24
                    Military flap holsters are basically just pouches, not the same close fit as police holsters.
                    .
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                    .
                    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by strummer
                      Or squad cars?
                      Tend to be sold at auction. In fact the IRA used an ex-Garda Grenada(?) in a robbery.
                      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                      • #26
                        SIG is a great weapon - extremely reliable
                        currently used by ARW

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                        • #27
                          The army put the whole competition on hold a few months back due to NATO deciding to adopt a new pistol round (Possibly .40 S&W). Rather than buy a new 9mm pistol, they decided to wait and get a pistol in the new calibre. NATO have not decided yet, but the DOD have decided to cancel the whole purchase. I was reported in the irish press last autumn.

                          We are not going to be getting new pistols for a while.

                          Personally, Sig Sauer.

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                          • #28
                            The competition was stalled due to budget cutbacks, regardless of excuse.

                            Any calibre review is still at an early stage, and the 9mm wont be changing for decades as the most common issue round. The calibres being looked at are 5.7 x28mm and 4.6 x 30mm.
                            .
                            .
                            .
                            With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                            Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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                            • #29
                              The German military is in the process of switching from 9mm to 4.6mm with the mp-7 and a new pistol.
                              Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                              Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                              • #30
                                yeh but the 5.56mm is a rifle round,this would be a pistol round with a much smaller charge behind it

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