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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

    As the hull is GRP it will be similar to the bigger cruisers on the Shannon that have a 12ft beam on a length of 39ft. I had a son who sailed on the Scottish In-shore Fishery protection boats for a few months. They were originally fitted with triple screws, three engines and 25kts max speed. The centre engine was removed to add more domestic space and usual best speed was 17/18 knots. They had 5 or 6 crew but rarely stayed out longer than 24 hours. She was the MV MORVEN. In our case our RFT is very open as it includes second user proposals. It's proposed usage is catch all for Maritime inspections, Port operations, some survey, and some counter measures. The big task is to maximise training scope and to make them relevant to Naval operations. I would add in a System integrated management System as provided in the Tamar Class lifeboats so that all boat parameters are displayed without having to leave the conning positions. Catamarans are fashionable and may be in the bids. Who knows.
    I would like to add a number of considerations for the planners especially around tankage for both fuel , sewerage and fresh water. it is critical that the material for fuel tanks is selected to an anti-corrosion standard, above bilge waterlines, fitted with inspection plates, and where bolted and flanged, all attaching fittings should be with bolt through (nut and bolt) and not set screws. The holding tanks for sewerage will need pump out positions on deck and in all port facilities, including our own will need pontoon berths with pump out stations. Perhaps sewerage can be treated on board and discharged as appropriate. Freshwater tanks need to be big enough to meet range and should include a contents gauge. Purists say dont fit screens in fuel pick-up lines, stop things at main fuel filter which is easy to access, also fit return fuel lines to main tank to prevent oxidisation of fuel by fuel splashing back into the tank. Make everything inspection friendly. I did a brief check and large hire boats have all tanks stainless steel with inspection plates, except hot water which is insulated aluminium, latter needs extra care to be kept clear of copper, bronze ,brass, and poultice corrosion if insulation absorbs water.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 19 April 2021, 10:57.

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    • Someone on Boards.ie just posted this.
      Reading the specs it's like the tender was reverse engineered around it.
      SAFEHAVEN MARINE LAUNCH (safehavenmarineold.com)


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      • They would need to increase the length, to allow for the work area at the back (it says16m2). They need different engines to allow for higher speed. It needs to allow for safer access, walk around, to the bow area.
        They do look good. Fair play if this is whats in mind. I didn't see that in my digging, good bit of kit for the NSR.

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        • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
          They would need to increase the length, to allow for the work area at the back (it says16m2). They need different engines to allow for higher speed. It needs to allow for safer access, walk around, to the bow area.
          They do look good. Fair play if this is whats in mind. I didn't see that in my digging, good bit of kit for the NSR.
          If you remove all the deck equipment, you have a space there not far off 16m2.
          New Page 2 (safehavenmarineold.com)

          2014 p1.jpg (1234×857) (safehavenmarineold.com)
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          • Looking at that is there space at the front for a weapon station though?

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            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              Looking at that is there space at the front for a weapon station though?
              Plenty. Square off the roof of the salon and you have a perfect platform to mount a gpmg on top of the towing bit.
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              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                Plenty. Square off the roof of the salon and you have a perfect platform to mount a gpmg on top of the towing bit.
                I would like to see more length than 12m. I have been on the Shannon for the last 57 years mainly with Silverline and our boat of choice has been the Silver swan at 11.58m X 4m and it is tight with 5 on board that 8 berth cruiser. 48 hours endurance on a light craft would be draining. We should pitch for a type based on the 48ft class to improve seakeeping qualities. The Baltic off Poland is different to a bad day in the Irish Sea with strong stream flows. The forward gun should be remote controlled HMG.

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                • Boards.ie has picked a little on this topic, some showing some interesting boats, but the speed limit is interesting but all depends on the hull type and loaded weight of the ship. It will be interesting to see what type wins the tender or will it need to be re-tendered, allowing for higher max speed. Maybe its the running costs is the reason why it requires lower speeds. If the NSR are using them for training for 80% of weekends, my guess is thats a lot of fuel, considering 4 ships. Anyone comment on that!
                  The life costs will be large ie dock, fuel, maintenance etc etc. Think of it in terms of a MOWAG. Servicing intervals for systems, fuel, storage and so on.

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                  • I imagine the scenario would be operating away from base for an overnight period. You don't need full comforts of home, just someplace to get the head down away from operations.
                    The type of event could be supporting Naval Divers locally or acting as a guard vessel for foreign naval visits. It would be a whole lot better than trying to stay warm and alert on an open RHIB for the duration, as is currently the case.
                    Any thoughts about the possibility of them being carried by the proposed P31 Replacement? Do you think it's a runner? There is mention of lifting points. Any of the images from the NS so far with that project have shown a motor launch that is not a RHIB on deck.
                    17. Lifting points
                    Vessels will have dedicated lifting points. Lift can be by slings or wire rope strops. Proposals to be discussed and agreed with INS Project Manager prior to tender being awarded. Lift strong points or lifting sling position to be clearly and permanently labelled.
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Taken in Haulbowline at open day in 2005.
                    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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                    • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                      Boards.ie has picked a little on this topic, some showing some interesting boats, but the speed limit is interesting but all depends on the hull type and loaded weight of the ship. It will be interesting to see what type wins the tender or will it need to be re-tendered, allowing for higher max speed. Maybe its the running costs is the reason why it requires lower speeds. If the NSR are using them for training for 80% of weekends, my guess is thats a lot of fuel, considering 4 ships. Anyone comment on that!
                      The life costs will be large ie dock, fuel, maintenance etc etc. Think of it in terms of a MOWAG. Servicing intervals for systems, fuel, storage and so on.
                      In most cases tenderers can ask the awarding authority questions to clarify details, without the need to re-tender. If changes are made to specs during process all bidders and other interested parties are informed.
                      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                      German 2: Private? I am a general!
                      German 1: That is the bad news.

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                      • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                        Looking at that is there space at the front for a weapon station though?
                        interestingly it doesn’t specific what the weapons mounts are to mount.

                        USP, Steyr, GPMG, HMG or 76mm

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                          In most cases tenderers can ask the awarding authority questions to clarify details, without the need to re-tender. If changes are made to specs during process all bidders and other interested parties are informed.
                          The housekeeping requirements are many. annual maintenance may require the boats to be lifted out by cradle and slip winched , or by crane to a cradle. Hire boat companies often have a constructed channel into the workshop where the boat is picked up by belly bands and X/Y craned to a prepared chock. The boats will normally require a pontoon berthage with all supply and discharge amenities on site including sewage pump outs ( required to be done3-5 days depending on shitting rates). If an MRV has a crane with an SWL higher than the boats tonnage, it certainly could lift it. It would have to be mounted transversely and NOT be a CG problem. The guns could be auto HMG forward and a couple of LMG's elsewhere. Tendering should be a fishing exercise rather than a specific inflexible requirement. Initial RFT's depend on where the Imperative requirements emanate from i.e operations or engineering. There is flexibility up to 15m and 30 tonnes.
                          Last edited by ancientmariner; 21 April 2021, 08:51.

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                          • In the issued RFT it is proposed that the Craft would operate up to 40nm offshore. This needs to be described in terms that will comply with RULES of an oversight organisation such as LLyods who do have Rules for construction of Patrol Craft of all types including naval patrol craft. German Llyod classify them as RSA 200, RSA50, RSA 20. and for harbours and approaches only. The RSA 50 allows for 50nm offshore and 50nm along the coastal region. If you wanted to go Dublin to Cork it would have to be in steps of 50nm and take some days . If the 40nm offshore is the limit what are the acceptable or compliant linear distances for inter port travel.?

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                              In the issued RFT it is proposed that the Craft would operate up to 40nm offshore. This needs to be described in terms that will comply with RULES of an oversight organisation such as LLyods who do have Rules for construction of Patrol Craft of all types including naval patrol craft. German Llyod classify them as RSA 200, RSA50, RSA 20. and for harbours and approaches only. The RSA 50 allows for 50nm offshore and 50nm along the coastal region. If you wanted to go Dublin to Cork it would have to be in steps of 50nm and take some days . If the 40nm offshore is the limit what are the acceptable or compliant linear distances for inter port travel.?
                              What does our P5 say about such things? The RFT seems to be intentionally vague as to which classification society the build comes under.
                              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                              German 2: Private? I am a general!
                              German 1: That is the bad news.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                                What does our P5 say about such things? The RFT seems to be intentionally vague as to which classification society the build comes under.
                                I'm lost on P 5 , however it is standard practice for all yards to build to a RULES STANDARD and keep the vessel under RULES until all matters of Guarantee and any Insurances required for Guarantee have been met and finalised. Once guarantee is over( could be more than one year but probably not more than five ) the State carries it's own insurance.

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