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The future of European Navies - Blue/Green Ops

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  • The future of European Navies - Blue/Green Ops

    The first landing of EH101's on the Danish Navy Blue Green Ship 'Esbern Snare'. Could we see this with the AW139's in a few years?

    The Agusta Westland EH-101 Merlin Joint Supporter makes its first landing
    on the command and support ship ESBERN SNARE.

  • #2
    A landing like this, to a moored vessel, with the aircraft not equipped with a Harpoon is quite plausable. It was done before, when a Non Navalised dauphin landed on Eithne Anchored in the Shannon estuary.

    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.


    • #3
      If all goes well, and we get a few more choppers, so that international deployments are possable then we may see a few take-offs and landings from static NS ships
      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
      Illegitimi non carborundum


      • #4
        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        A landing like this, to a moored vessel, with the aircraft not equipped with a Harpoon is quite plausable. It was done before, when a Non Navalised dauphin landed on Eithne Anchored in the Shannon estuary.
        The AW139 will only need a harpoon to be fitted to it to allow it to land on. AC engineers have stated that it will not be a major task.


        • #5
          reminds me of p31 in France with new helo's - then remember what happened??
          helo's gone


          • #6
            Photo tour of Ebsern Snare.

            Surprisingly large interior. Just the ticket for Ireland. Never happen though (Not least part of the cargo!). Far too large and capable for Dept of Finance's taste.

            Last edited by California Tanker; 9 July 2007, 14:37.
            Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!


            • #7
              One of these Absalon class ships would be great for Ireland or any other small Navy. It will take a reinforced company group LAV's and all. With its weapons fit it packs a bit of punch for Multi-role type vessel - almost frigate like with that 5 inch gun up front. In a way thats the concept - part frigate/long range OPV and part sealift/amphibious. Though from what Ive picked up about your Finance Dept ruling the roost it would be a long shot.


              • #8
                I think you can forget about a 5inch gun from the outset..any new vessel will probably be fitted with the now almost standart Auto melara/breda 76mm gun.

                Almost any ship at anchor or alongside can take a helo if the ship is equipped with the right fire fighting gear etc...and of corse a suitable surface to put the helo on!
                Covid 19 is not over's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe


                • #9
                  The Dept. of Finance is not as much of a problem as some people might think. The Irish Exchequer has been awash with money for a number of years now. If the Government were to decide tomorrow to spend a couple of hundred million on a ship for the Naval Service, then the money would be provided. It's up to the Naval Service in the first place to say what they need and what it is to be used for.

                  But Ireland is in a different geopolitical situation to that of Australia or New Zealand, for example. Ireland doesn't have the same imperial/colonial background and/or perspective as the USA, UK, France, or even the Netherlands or Denmark. Factors such as these need to be take into account when the ships operated by other nations are held up as examples for Ireland to follow.


                  • #10
                    The 76mm woud make sense for Ireland as its the generic gun on the NS OPV's. The reason why the 5 inch on the Absalon class is attractive for a number of small navies is that it has the weapons capabilities of a frigate (compare with ANZAC class) and the sealift capability of a MRV (compare with Meko MRV). The rule of thumb is that a frigate is the smallest naval vessel capable of independent operations. That might not important for the NS but vital for some navies who might only have say 2 frigates and one sealift ship and are stretched with tasking requirements and need to land to a force group with some immedicacy and independently.


                    • #11
                      There is another version of this class in the design(if not building) stage that is a scaled down version, more frigate than sealift, but still capable of both. The key in this design, like the Meko, is the modular aspect of its Comms, sensor and weapon fit.

                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.


                      • #12
                        Are you meaning the Danish "Patrol Ship" (They are trying not to call it a frigate so not to scare the natives) based on the Absalon hull which will be a class of three due early next decade or have they got something new planned. Anyway the Thetis/Standardflex approach the Danes got into a few years ago is coming up trumps for them.


                        • #13
                          Thats exactly what I was talking about. Thanks.

                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.


                          • #14
                            The Danish Navy Material Command has released some info on the new class of three frigates, built on the basis of the hull of the Absalon (FSS) class.

                            Quick overview

                            Displacement 6200 tonnes
                            Lenght 138 m
                            Crew approx. 100 with berthing for 160
                            Speed approx. 28 knots
                            Range at 15 knots 9000 nm

                            Radars: Either Sampson + Smart S Mk2 or APAR + Smart L
                            + additional sensors (no specifics on sonar, ESM, IRST, etc.)

                            32 cell VLS launcher for long range SAMs (depending on sensor package, but Mk-41 SL preferred)
                            24 ESSMs (already in use in the RDN)
                            8 Harpoon Block IIs (already in use in the RDN)
                            76 mm DP Oto gun, but prepared for 127 mm Mk 45 mod 4 (already in use in the RDN)
                            35 mm Oerlikon Millenium CIWS (anybody got info on this one?)
                            ASW torpedoes, probably MU90 which is already in use...

                            Decoy system from Terma would be a sure guess...

                            MTU 4 x 20V M70 diesels, each providng 8200kWs

                            Hanger for 1 EH101 Maritime helo or 1 Superlynx + 3 UAVs

                            the first keel should be laid down mid 2008, and all three should be commisioned by 2012
                            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"


                            • #15

                              35MM millenium CIWS, same one as is fitted to the Pirahna skyguard system

                              The Seaguard inner layer defence system ILDS from Oerlikon Contraves – a subsidiary of Rheinmetall Defence – is a formidable and highly effective defence umbrella for ships of all classes against

                              * conventional high lethality air threat including missiles, both anti-ship and anti radiation,
                              * asymmetric surface threat; including fast intruder attack craft (FIAC), and
                              * defence against shore based attacks (force protection) including whilst alongside or in restricted waters and with limited combat/surveillance systems active.

                              The primary role of the Seaguard ILDS is to defend against air or surface targets which may have passed through outer layer defences. Of increasing importance, however, is the ability of the ILDS with the Millennium 35 mm gun with the Ahead air burst munition (ABM) to engage and defeat swarm attacks of FIAC at "keep out" ranges significantly greater than other comparable gun systems.

                              Millennium 35 mm Ahead Naval Gun

                              The main elements of the Seaguard ILDS are the Millennium 35 mm gun firing air burst munition (Ahead) and the TMX/EO Mk2 gun fire control system (GFCS). The ILDS can also control other medium calibre guns via a dedicated weapon control module (WCM).

                              Normally integrated with a combat system, the Seaguard ILDS is cued to its target by the ship's search and acquisition sensors and operated (or supervised if in automatic mode) from any one of the multi function consoles of the combat management system (CMS).
                              Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                              Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore