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Larger Calibre Main Armament for MRV?

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  • Larger Calibre Main Armament for MRV?

    Should the NS consider moving from the 76mm (3in) OTO Melara to the 127mm OTO Melara for the proposed MRV?

    127mm Lightweight Mounting



    Italian Navy 127mm firing.


    Considering that OTO Melara are developing Extended Range Guided Munitions (ERGM) for the 127mm, should the NS not consider have an enhanced shore bombardment capability?


    "VULCANO" is a family of Extended Range (ER) guided ammunition for the 127mm (5-inch) gun, to be employed, as primary role, in the Naval Fire Support for shore bombardment and specifically designed to meet the future requirements in Naval Gun Support Warfare.
    The projectile technology is based on a 127mm fin stabilized projectile capable to achieve the range enhancement through an increased muzzle velocity and low drag, due to the sub-calibre design; no rocket propulsion is involved.
    "VULCANO" projectiles are fully interoperable with all the existing 127mm (5-inch) naval artilleries and especially suited for the Oto Melara 127/54C and 127 LW guns.

    The ammunition configuration includes:
    unguided multipurpose extended range ammo capable of reaching 70 Km
    terminal guided ammo with on board seeker for long range precise Asw up to 70 Km
    guided ammo with inertial guidance system and GPS for precise long range shore bombardment up to 100 km
    With the new gun barrel under development for the 127LW gun the guided ammo will reach a maximum range of 120 km

    The operational requirement for the long range firing, originally defined by Italian Navy, has been recently shared and agreed also by Italian Army.
    As consequence the sub-calibre ammunition family will be extended also to the 155mm (6 inch) calibre for application in the field artillery of Italian Army.

  • #2
    Fantastic Idea of course, for a vessel intended to support troops in a Liberia type operation, a bit of fire support would do no harm.

    But try and justify it to the beancounters and bleeding heart liberals.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
      Fantastic Idea of course, for a vessel intended to support troops in a Liberia type operation, a bit of fire support would do no harm.

      But try and justify it to the beancounters and bleeding heart liberals.
      remember when you suggested that instead of calling the new blue green ship any thing military, just emphasize it's humanitarian side, disater relief, ect ect, just do the same with the gun, say it can launch food parcels to starving people 10Km inland
      Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

      Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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      • #4
        What calibre are Pringles?


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
          What calibre are Pringles?
          we could get one of those guns and find out, if it works cool, if not explosion...still cool
          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

          Comment


          • #6
            Emm fire support when was the NS realistically asked to supply this?..all the other taskings have been raelistically supplied but under the mandates required can't see NGS being one of them..besides thought such calibres were beyond EU funding for FPO and would have to be funded from the DF budget ..so realistic...hmmm?
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
              Emm fire support when was the NS realistically asked to supply this?
              DF Recce Mission to Liberia in 2003. Recce Team wanted NGS (or NFS as it is now termed) when they were patrolling to locate a suitable HQ. It wasn't used, but a demonstration was given to the team & the ship drilled for it on the way south.
              Last edited by Dogwatch; 14 February 2007, 10:16.

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              • #8
                We could slap a couple of goalkeeper systems on it too, it can track up to 18 starving individuals at once and fire mini pringles at a rate of 4200 ppm (packets per minute) plus it only takes nine minutes to reload it.

                It could also be used in a close in system to protect said food firing naval ship from sea skimming anti ship missiles travelling at up to mach 2, but thats just a secondary role of course.

                Personally I think that a bigger ship which will have an extended role and is intended to be tasked the way the dutch Rotterdam is, would make good use of a larger weapon system, and should be augmented with a few extras like a secondary 76 Oto Malera and use the guided munitions on the 127mm...

                but im straying into unfamiliar territory here...

                For instance I also think that the irish army could make use of a limited marine detachment (naval ground pounders???) possibly at company strenth (depending on the size and capability of the ship in question) which would add punch to any overseas deployment, hmmm..

                maybe I've pushed the envelope on this one...

                time to back away slowly from the keyboard and run into my bunker before they train their 127 on me.
                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                • #9
                  Consider a 105mm Light Artillery battery. 6 guns if I'm not mistaken, will take approximately 45 minutes for worked up gun teams to set up. A well worked up gun team will fire 6 rds per minute, which gives 36 rds at 15.2kg out to 9nm (approximately). That's 547.2kgs onto a target. Quite good. (Open to correction on more exact figures from any Artillery heads, please).

                  Take a 76mm, 80rds per minute out to 9.9nm, at 4 kg per shell. That's 320kgs onto a target from a platform that can move at 23+kts. Not bad.

                  Take a 127mm, 40 rds per minute out to 16.2nm, at 15.4kgs per shell. That's 616kgs onto a target from a platform that you would hope could move at 18kts. Not bad either, and that's before ERGM's are considered.

                  NFS is an option the NS needs to consider, when you see how effective it can be.
                  Last edited by Dogwatch; 14 February 2007, 10:49.

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                  • #10
                    127 mm gun

                    Meanwhile , back at the original thread i.e the super duper 127 mm , I should point out that such a gun cost approx € 20 million. And just imagine what the ammo costs?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      .....besides thought such calibres were beyond EU funding for FPO and would have to be funded from the DF budget ..so realistic...hmmm?
                      AFAIK Niamh and Roisins main armament were not funded by FPO money, both ships arrived minus main gun and it will probably be the same scenario so no matter what they choose the DF budget will be used.

                      Cost of Ammo is always a big one and if you pick a calibre already used by the army then stocks are always easier to come by, interoperability.......etc etc.

                      What i'm waiting for and I don't think it's too mittyish given the anticipated role of the ship is a CIWS.
                      No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
                      No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vice Admiral
                        Cost of Ammo is always a big one and if you pick a calibre already used by the army then stocks are always easier to come by, interoperability.......etc etc.

                        What i'm waiting for and I don't think it's too mittyish given the anticipated role of the ship is a CIWS.
                        So wait for the Army to buy a few 155mms, then stick a MONARC on the front of the ship?

                        CIWS like RAM wouldn't be a bad idea, mind.

                        NTM
                        Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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                        • #13
                          Weapons fit is a Df issue....Eithne being a clsssic example,,btw why was my post on naval strangers modded..
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • #14
                            Your what on what?


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bitter Boy View Post
                              Meanwhile , back at the original thread i.e the super duper 127 mm , I should point out that such a gun cost approx € 20 million. And just imagine what the ammo costs?
                              Don't think they would cost as much. Open for discussion though! The Royal Netherlands Navy bought 30 year old 127mm OTO Melara guns for the 'De Zeven Provicien' Class off the Canadian Navy. They had them on their old Tribal Class Destroyers. The Dutch got them for the sole reason that OTO Melara said they will have the ERGM within the next couple of years.




                              Photos of the Canadian ships with 127mm in the 1980's.


                              After replacing the 127mm with 76mm super rapid in the early 1990's.
                              Last edited by Dogwatch; 15 February 2007, 12:10.

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