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Uses for the NSR.

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    Problem is that the NSR was never percieved at a feasible Naval reserve and its portal control duties being what they were drawn up for.Along with small boat handling...and dipping into the concept of the NS.

    The fact that they did integrate to a certain degree was because it looked good on paper to have an actual reserve for the Naval Service as opposed to a force who were drawn up to perform a function envisaged back in the forties.

    Bear in mind up to the late Eighties there were three STYs half dozen BP 18s and nothing that could concieveably used as a portal control craft.

    Some members through out these years did token service on ships but it was never really feasible as there were no shore based establishments that could support the training required to serve at sea in a meaningful role. I still believe the only way to learn the job..is on the job ...having carried out some basic safety courses before hand.

    Out side of firefighting and gunnery which were and still are specialised roles there is no other place to carry out these course nand given in my time an SG3 took six full weeks...on top of basic seamanship training , firefighting etc..how was anybody who couldn't commit to that sort of term ever going to be of use above aship.

    Training facilities in the Slua Muiri as it was were geared around Sail training ..not Naval Service requirements and an STY hardly equates even to any credible source of training for use aboard a modern PV.

    So begs the question why were the SM tasked as a naval Reserve when all they actually had in common was a similar uniform?

    There is still a core of people within the NSR who belive that they have a place at sea with the NS but the units training does not and cannot reflect this..they by default are primarily a portal police....

    If there are those who want to be actual Naval Reservists and can substitue in for a twinned crew memeber they should be seperated from the mainstream NSR..integrated with the NS for series of weekends..paid of course... to bring them up to speed on the job they wish to carry out.

    There should definetely be a policy of no passengers or serving aboard without appointment unless it is a part of a structured training plan with a definite time span and goals.

    Only when guys have completed this type of training should they be left to sea as serving crew members,

    So I suppose in short let those who want to portal police and sail around in STY s or drive fast boats stay as the SM....but those who can commit and have the ability should be mainstreamed as per the Army's integrated reseve and not just dumped on ships to make up the numbers.

    I know this might piss people off but I'm looking at it from the information that has been posted..and from what I rememeber of my own SM and NS days and where the system fell down.

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  • armedboarder
    replied
    Aha, thats more like it. MMM inadequite training, the lions den, give us our own launches to do specialised tasks. Thats all old bit**ing which doesnt come near mentioning the fact that the NSR is in serious trouble. Manpower levels accepted, every organisation gets the 10% of uninterested personnel just there for the easy buck. But seriously, how can you cover the other 90% of pers who have no idea nor the interest levels to gain an idea of what they should know.

    This is not a stab at the reserve simply because of one experience or a general dislike for any one unit. I started my military career in the reserve, trained hard to gain the skills required to participate as a functioning member with a huge amount of pride in the tasks required of my unit.

    I just dont get the NSR, anyone like to help me understand ??

    Reply by PM if censorship is required.

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  • Bitter Boy
    replied
    Uses of NSR

    To follow on from Vice Admiral and to give another NSR view I must say the following:

    NSR Officers and Senior NCOs going on PVs is a waste of time. There will never be a full one for one swop with an equivalent NS rank. So NS, go buy us a couple of launches and let us go do in shore small boat stuff. We can then train young men and women in some basic seamanship before they are thrown onto the PVs (Lions den?)

    The units are faltering because the whole focus over the last 5 / 6 years has been to do duties and get people on ships. As a result the unit activities themselves have diminished and the unit and consequent unit moral has been eroded down to virtually nothing. There is no craic in the NSR anymore. It is a frustrating, thankless, part time job.

    The solution is to buy some launches, ribs and get our hands on a sail training yacht every now and again. Then re focus on local in shore activities. I particularly think the NSR should seek out their own niche military role , rather than upset the fine sensibilities of the NS by landing in on top of them on their ships.

    On the matter of the re-org of the Slua Muiri into the NSR, the Government / Civil Service 'forgot' to impliment some rather important things such as employment protection and national advertising campaigns. These are vital to a successful re-org. However the powers that be 'forgot' to carry them out because:

    A) It would cost money
    B) Nobody really gives a monkey's about the NSR.

    So based on the above we will continue to beat our heads against the wall in a fruitless fashion until the Government / Civil Service and yes , NS, decide to get serious about the NSR.

    YES . I am a bitter bitter man.

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    What it has got to with is Standards. Levels of commitment are at an all time low, both to training and less glamorous duties that units have failed to give 100%
    So where does the problem lie..at the NS door for accepting below par people on ships..or at the door of the NSR for not having people up to scratch?

    IMO its all back to pounds shillings and pence.Employment verus volunteer status.The higher commitment now demanded comes witha price..very few are willing to turn down work..or even have the oppertunity to get enough training because of the financial restrictions it imposes.If the uptake of training was increased from the NSR units the demand would increase...but until guys with mortgages car loans etc..second jobs are reimbursed for loss of earning potential by committing as reservists in any format there are going to be commitment issues.

    The social and financial climate dictates what people can do with their spare time.For most two or three weeks camp either at sea or ashore is the maximum available to them.Any other time is normally financially detrimental to people..and also causes problems with leave etc.

    If you have two guys taking holidays from the same shift at work they may not be able to do so because of production issues..civvy jobs are time and money issues and there is very little redundancy in the normal work place where employers can bring in replacements to fill a vacancy just because a guy wants to go to sea for six weeks..and carry out a number of course that qualify him to be of beneift to a ships company.

    The DF on the other hand have a pool of replacements or built in redundancy that can cope with limted absences from the place of employment.

    tbh I don't the scenario is going to improve anytime soon or until the rights of the reservist within the work are secured or it become finacially viable to commit more time to training.

    The Naval service and the NSR suffer uniquely in this regard becuse it is experience gained on board ship which can not be taught in a class room that makes the difference.

    Its one thing knowing the theory but another entirely to be able to do the job. And the curent set up of unpaid ,unsecured volunteer status does not benefit either the NS or the NSR.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 10 September 2007, 20:32.

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  • Vice Admiral
    replied
    Kermit,
    There was no need to integrate the NSR, we already stand beside our PDF brothers on operational ships for up to 6 weeks a year.

    ArmedBoarder,
    I will reply in time, I have not been on the site as regularly of late. your observations are in large part accurate but not the whole story.

    Rds, etc...

    Leave a comment:


  • armedboarder
    replied
    It has nothing to do with intruders or reserve concept. What it has got to with is Standards. Levels of commitment are at an all time low, both to training and less glamorous duties that units have failed to give 100% to. I have nothing but respect for the 10% of pers that turn to as often as possible and with a passion to learn and practice the skills supplied by the organisation.
    In a nutshell Im not impressed to date by the integrated N.S.R. and thought some one would like to change my mind.

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    In fairness its back to the NSR guys to reply.I know how the NS feel about the reserve concept..how do I know..?

    I've served aboard ships and appreciate how 'intruders' are treated and no matter how integrated they may feel..different world...

    yes they get out and give it their all and work as best they can..and it might work better with expected deployess..ie if a ships company knew they were getting A/sea bloggs...etc..might work out

    Ships companies funny lot..although everybody will rotate there will always be the last link...If some one is serving on Eithne now..there is link to those who lived there in the past..as in links to the past ..who did what when, not that easy if you are filling time..it takes months to build these links...and these links are how traditions are built.

    Hard to explain and without deriding people who have put some time in..but there is a very great difference between those who put in a given time period of their annual leave ..albeit maybe three weeks as opposed to those who spend two years of their lives with a new postal adress.

    Point in case my first vote was cast from Eithne..it wasn't just turning up a doing it for two weeks..it was my life.

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  • armedboarder
    replied
    Ten days later and no reply, the comment I posted must have been accurate enough that no-one would like to retort.

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  • armedboarder
    replied
    Well I suppose I could think of worthwhile uses but "YOU CAN SHOW THE DONKEY THE CART, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN HE WILL PULL IT"

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    Well nice to see a view from the other side as opposed to the NSR side...The problems you quote are not unique to the NSR and The NS....same problems arise in The PDF/RDF scenario..

    Putting it blankly I think rotation of cadre staff is the answer..short term in that people who have recently served at sea and have practical and current knowledge of life aboard ships should be attached to train up NSR units.Too long the case of guys who haven't been at sea for years are taking up appointments in Coys doing admin jobs and playing little part in actual training.

    the Integration aspect is supposed to solve this problem in that those returning to units are supposed to be au fait with the current workings of the services..new methods etc.

    Fine ,leave the long term cadre to do the day to day running of a Coy but they are certainly limited in what the can influence in the line of current training given most have not been subject to modern conditions at sea etc.

    Placements on ships should be on a one to one basis..ie if L/S smith is on leave..L/S jones NSR should be able to fill in..problem is the former has five years at sea...the latter has 5 weeks.

    tbh I agree that in certain circumstances the NSR rating or NCO is in no way ever going to measure up to the requirements or expeience...so is the NSR time at sea thing a little short sighted?

    Yes the course are there to bring them up to speed...but again how can a person put in the time to gain the experience without having to take hist such as loss of leave , work commitments, tax, etc.

    Given that the time now allowed to annual training is capped the most a guy can expect is 6 weeks at sea per year max..boiled down thats two three weekers. in the summer !

    It now comes down to a guy being restricted from on high rather becuase of lack of effort at his own level.This is a shame..especially when there are those who are willing to put in the time.

    The rank at sea thing is very problematic...experience and attitude opposed to rank and authourity...this is where I'm suppose to say ' rspect the rank..respect the man' but I know how it works on ships where senior AB's may command more respect than junior Leading rates...

    Without creating NSR vs NS factions aboard ships..where does the line lie.

    I can quote what should happen all night but reality states some differences....who does the responsibilty lie with to sort it...well with NCOs and bods suppose its the Coxn's remit.

    Best case scenario pool your NSR replacements , those who work well use them...the rest let them get on with riverine duties...two tier system..message will soon get back and problem will be sorted by the NSR. Most up and comming have the commitment to sort it..I think....well thinking of certain individuals ...

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  • rosser
    started a topic Uses for the NSR.

    Uses for the NSR.

    Last edited by rosser; 23 July 2008, 22:51.
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