Air Defence Radar for new ships?

[hptmurphy]

I remember during Naval exercises one year we were tasked with tracking two fougas. The transited to cork before 'attacking' the ships.
While therotically we had the range to track them..we never actually picked them up until they had cleared land..like GTTc said back round clutter. Tracking them at medium range was practicl enough..until they broke off and attacked from behind.(typical sneaky AC trick lol!!)

Tracking and aquiring a low fast aircraft playstation style is easy enough..but when it comes to actually putting it 'in the rings' and engaging it with a 20mm or even 57mm weapon on local control ..it got that bit harder.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Remember, the Argentinians used land-launched Exocets, which were nearly invisible(visually and on radar) until they got very close to the target ship.One such missile flew over it's target's heli-deck without detonating. They also used Aermacchi MB 326 trainer jets in attacks on the RN ships and they were a harder-to-hit smaller target than the Skyhawks/Daggers.At least one such attack was made from out of a valley and the RN vessel did not engage until the shells from the MB were hitting it.
regards
GttC

[thebig C]

Irst

An IRST (infra-red search and track) system is supposed to be able to do a better job of picking out an aircraft or missile against coastal clutter.

[ropebag]

given both the tried and trusted - ground clutter - and new - uberfast and slightly stealthy - ways of attacking ships, perhaps the NS should, instead of a traditional mast mounted radar with all the potential hadicaps that comes with, consider the use of a 'lookdown' radar fitted on UAV's and data-link the picture it creates.

UAV's can be very much multi-role, and they could be shared amongst the fleet.

i'm assuming that jamming of the data-links wouldn't be a problem, mainly because the NS - and the DF in general - don't go to the kind of locations where the local protagonists (except, perhaps our Israeli friends...) are 'serious' enough to use that kind of technology.

[Goldie fish]

The New OPVs have a requirement to launch UAVs. Perhaps the NS is considering this type of cost effective surveillance for future operations?

[thebig C]

Aew Uav?

given both the tried and trusted - ground clutter - and new - uberfast and slightly stealthy - ways of attacking ships, perhaps the NS should, instead of a traditional mast mounted radar with all the potential hadicaps that comes with, consider the use of a 'lookdown' radar fitted on UAV's and data-link the picture it creates.

UAV's can be very much multi-role, and they could be shared amongst the fleet.

i'm assuming that jamming of the data-links wouldn't be a problem, mainly because the NS - and the DF in general - don't go to the kind of locations where the local protagonists (except, perhaps our Israeli friends...) are 'serious' enough to use that kind of technology.

Would it not have to be a fairly sizable UAV to do the AEW job?

[thebig C]

The New OPVs have a requirement to launch UAVs. Perhaps the NS is considering this type of cost effective surveillance for future operations?

Maybe that's just a future-proofing part of the spec? Or it's a way of getting a flight deck while avoiding all the arguments around heli ops? Either or both are sound reasons, IMHO.

[Victor]

There is an Engineer's Journal from 1984 that had a number of articles on LE Eithne, including the radar and the expectation tha the Bofors would have a reasonable chance against an ASM.

Tracking them at medium range was practicl enough..until they broke off and attacked from behind.(typical sneaky AC trick lol!!)

No it makes sense, especially if the radar is impaired in that arc, but as importantly, the main gun can't shoot in that arc.

Tracking and aquiring a low fast aircraft playstation style is easy enough..but when it comes to actually putting it 'in the rings' and engaging it with a 20mm or even 57mm weapon on local control ..it got that bit harder.

Well thats what the LIOD is there for (is ti still there?).

I'm not sure if small UAVs have enough power to be meaningful air defence radars.

the threat that Goldie Fish describes, a very serious threat to a ship at anchor full of fuel, ammunition and personnel

Being full of fuel can be useful (a) less fumes in the tanks (b) if the tank leaks (overboard) displacement is reduced and you rise in the water. Of course the 150kg HE exploding in your fuel tank and the rocket motor igniting the fuel is not good. Magazines can be flooded.

sea skimming shoulder launched missiles

Launched by the terminator himself?

[Goldie fish]

Remember the Royal Marines Disabled an Argentine submarine using a combination of shoulder launched missiles.

[Victor]

Remember the Royal Marines Disabled an Argentine submarine using a combination of shoulder launched missiles.

A corvette Guerrico by Carl Gustav 84mm. In Naval terms isn't a 'missile' a 'guided missile' not an unguided rocket?

Except for Exocet, which is guided rocket.

[Pod]

I believe the submarine was disabled by a Sea Skua fired by a RN Lynx some where in the region of South Georgia . The Carl gustav incident occured on East Falkland during the invasion itself- damaged an Argentinian corvette in memory serves.

[mutter nutter]

I believe the submarine was disabled by a Sea Skua fired by a RN Lynx some where in the region of South Georgia . The Carl gustav incident occured on East Falkland during the invasion itself- damaged an Argentinian corvette in memory serves.

Santa fe was hit by AS-12 AT missiles fired by Wasp helicopters

[Victor]

Santa fe was hit by AS-12 AT missiles fired by Wasp helicopters

At South Georgia.

AS-12 is hardly shoulder launched at 76 kg. :D

[Goldie fish]

Now you are being pedantic. I am suggesting that it is possible to disable a naval vessel using shoulder launched missiles(an AT4 is considered a missile once it leaves the "tube").
No mention of post firing guidance, but I wouldn't rule out a Javelin or Milan. These are shoulder launched missiles.
Mut more importantly before you go off doing your merry dance, what defence would you provide from shoulder launched missiles, such as the AT4?

[ex pat 007]

At South Georgia.

AS-12 is hardly shoulder launched at 76 kg. :D

What ? 160 lbs ? too easy...