Air Defence Radar for new ships?

[hptmurphy]

Save me the bother Dogwatch..was just about to post same..

[Dogwatch]

But there is a huge difference between Air Search and Air defence, isn't there? You can have air search without being linked to a weapon. Murph may correct me, but if I remember correctly, the Purpose of Eithnes DAO 5 was to vector the heli to the ship in poor visibility.

The purpose of the DAO5 is Air Search, the India Band radar (Decca, then Kelvin Hughes) is what a HCO (Helicopter Control Officer) uses to vector the heli in.

[thebig C]

This is the typical last line of defence against surface-skimming missiles:



Phalanx CIWS, a stand-alone system, including search and tracking radars.

The Israeli ship hit by a Hezbollah missile had missile defence systems, but they were switched off, because no attack was aniticipated.

[ropebag]

I think the only real air threat faced these days by the NS operating overseas is sea skimming shoulder launched missiles, as the Israelis found out recently to their peril. You really need your Radar linked directly to your main armament for that. The Oto Melara 76mm is capable of defending against such a threat, apparently.

i'd be tempted to ask if any system could defend against that type of threat, given the very short range at which it would be launched

this is from the 'HMS Daring/SAMPSON/ASTOR' thread on Pprune, it gives information on the reaction times of various systems against different threats - which depends entirely upon the speed they get from detection to impact.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=288129&page=4

the people who know think a USN Arleigh Burke AEGIS AWD would detect a mach 3 sea-skimmer at 13 miles and get one shot off before the missile got suffiently close that a detonation would cause massive damage to the ship regardless of it being intercepted, while a Type 45 AWD should detect the same threat at 16 miles and have time for a 'shoot-look-shoot' cycle before the missile gets too close for a safe interception.

if the kind of weapon you're talking about - a gloried ATGW - was fired from say 2 - 3km, then even a rapid fire gun slaved to the Radar (with the inherent ability of a gun system to only engage a single target at one time) would be bloody hard pushed to get the incoming missile before it hit.

[thebig C]

I think the only real air threat faced these days by the NS operating overseas is sea skimming shoulder launched missiles, as the Israelis found out recently to their peril. You really need your Radar linked directly to your main armament for that. The Oto Melara 76mm is capable of defending against such a threat, apparently.

I think it was a bit more than a shoulder-launched missile....

[Goldie fish]

I think the only real air threat faced these days by the NS operating overseas is sea skimming shoulder launched missiles, as the Israelis found out recently to their peril. You really need your Radar linked directly to your main armament for that. The Oto Melara 76mm is capable of defending against such a threat, apparently.

[ropebag]

perhaps what is meant by air defence capability is - as opposed to an integral system like PAAMS - a 'bolt on' system where the ships radar suite provides warning and target indication while a system like RBS-70 MANPADS operated either by embarked troops or the ships company does the actual defending.

not much use against supersonic sea-skimmers, but probably pretty effective against Helicopters, UAV's and even fast jets.

easy to see from these piccies how easy such a system would be to bring along to the party, in its most basic form fire control could just be put over the ships loudspeaker...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...rbs70-pics.htm

[Goldie fish]

But there is a huge difference between Air Search and Air defence, isn't there? You can have air search without being linked to a weapon. Murph may correct me, but if I remember correctly, the Purpose of Eithnes DAO 5 was to vector the heli to the ship in poor visibility.

[DeV]

It is generally the case with radar equipped AD weapons that they can detect them before they are able to engage them -> the range of the radar is longer than the range of the weapon.

[hptmurphy]

DAO 5 could track...but whats the point if you can't engage outside certain ranges.

Aquire on TDS. link it to OPs and let them decide!

[Goldie fish]

A detail of the RFP was pointed out to me earlier by a non military person(who was interested in the details from an engineering perspective) I had missed it myself.


OPV:

Radars Navigation, Air Defence option

EPV:

Radars Navigation and Air Defence

Is this a first for an Irish NS vessel? Was the Radar on Eithne an Air Search only or did it have an Air Defence capability?