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Jane's Navy International - October 2007

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  • Jane's Navy International - October 2007

    JNI has an article on the Naval Service in it's October issue, which for those interested is available FREE here: http://www.janes.com/info/jni50/ or here: http://emag.digitalpc.co.uk/jig/jni_october07.asp

    IAS

  • #2
    Thank you. Great link.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #3
      depressing

      Thanks for posting that - very interesting and informative article; ultimately a bit depressing though: the leadership of the Naval Service clearly has no ambition or plan for radical development; it's just more of the same only a bit bigger. A 'constabulary navy' is a coastguard, so why not call a spade a spade and rename the NS the Coastguard? They don't seem to want to be a Navy. Their thinking seems to be stuck back in the 1980s: there is no mention of all the changes that have happened in the world during the past 10 or 15 years and the way this has impacted on the maritime threats facing Ireland, and the restructuring of naval forces globally.

      Comment


      • #4
        constabulary navy

        "Rank 1: Major Global Force Projection Navy (Complete) – This is a navy capable of carrying out all the military roles of naval forces on a global scale. It possesses the full range of carrier and amphibious capabilities, sea control forces, and nuclear attack and ballistic missile submarines, and all in sufficient numbers to undertake major operations independently. E.g., United States.

        Rank 2: Major Global Force Projection Navy (Partial) – These are navies that possess most if not all of the force projection capabilities of a "complete" global navy, but only in sufficient numbers to undertake one major "out of area" operation. E.g., Britain, France.

        Rank 3: Medium Global Force Projection Navy – These are navies that may not possess the full range of capabilities, but have a credible capacity in certain of them and consistently demonstrate a determination to exercise them at some distance from home waters, in cooperation with other Force Projection Navies. E.g., Canada, Netherlands, Australia.

        Rank 4: Medium Regional Force Projection Navy – These are navies possessing the ability to project force into the adjoining ocean basin. While they may have the capacity to exercise these further afield, for whatever reason, they do not do so on a regular basis.

        Rank 5: Adjacent Force Projection Navies – These are navies that have some ability to project force well offshore, but are not capable of carrying out high-level naval operations over oceanic distances.

        Rank 6: Offshore Territorial Defence Navies – These are navies that have relatively high levels of capability in defensive (and constabulary) operations up to about 200 miles from their shores, having the sustainability offered by frigate or large corvette vessels and (or) a capable submarine force.

        Rank 7: Inshore Territorial Defence Navies – These are navies that have primarily inshore territorial defence capabilities, making them capable of coastal combat rather than constabulary duties alone. This implies a force comprising missile-armed fast-attack craft, short-range aviation and a limited submarine force.

        Rank 8: Constabulary Navies – These are significant fleets that are not intended to fight, but to act purely in a constabulary role.

        Rank 9: Token Navies – These are navies that have some minimal capability, but this often consists of little more than a formal organisational structure and a few coastal craft. These states, the world's smallest and weakest, cannot aspire to anything but the most limited constabulary functions. "

        (globalsecurity.org)

        Ireland should aim to have a navy that can defend - not just police - its coastal and offshore territory. In the context of the above rankings, that would mean moving up from rank 8 to rank 6 or 7.
        Last edited by thebig C; 8 November 2007, 11:43.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by carrington View Post
          Depressing
          Thanks for the link.

          You are looking at the glass as being half-empty instead of half-full. Real progress has been made over trhe last few years and is continuing to be made. The future outlook for the INS is most definitely positive. If the UN does rule in favour of Ireland regarding the expansion of its offshore territory this should mean that an expansion of the flotilla is more likely in the future and possibly that more patrol aircraft such as the CASA might have to be procured. This could then create an opportunity to consider the procurement of different classes of vessels for more specialised roles.

          I'm not sure that Ireland will ever operate "Warships". As a well armed coastguard the INS seems to be up to its current role.

          But that's just my opinion.

          "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


          Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to agree the navy should be called the coastguard, the government has no immediate plans to put more money into it, it'll be all talk for the next ten years

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lordinajamjar View Post
              Thanks for the link.


              I'm not sure that Ireland will ever operate "Warships". As a well armed coastguard the INS seems to be up to its current role.

              But that's just my opinion.
              I agree with your opinion! The Service is on the up and up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well here's what some "other people" are claiming as their territory

                http://www.reglugerd.is/interpro/dkm.../key2/196-1985
                Meh.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Iceland....I knew the Brits fought the Cod war for something, plotting away up there in their little island fortress, planning scheming....No surrender to the Icelandic menace
                  Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                  Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yooklid View Post
                    Well here's what some "other people" are claiming as their territory

                    http://www.reglugerd.is/interpro/dkm.../key2/196-1985
                    Thats their Submission. Nothing has been agreed yet. The Faeroes(Denmark?) are claiming the same space.

                    This is ours.

                    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/clcs_new...l_exec_sum.pdf


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Iceland....I knew the Brits fought the Cod war for something, plotting away up there in their little island fortress, planning scheming....No surrender to the Icelandic menace
                      read about the cod wars and then reinforce your opinion..it was nothing to do with sovereignty..they had a whole other agenda and Uncle sam was a major factor in how the whole thing came to a head.

                      I have the book but given its price and the speciality of the subject ..unless you are a student of Naval Conflict and the politics of fishing I doubt if you would be truly interested.

                      Just know that it should have been renamed 'the war that the yanks told the brits to walk away from while they won it becuse of the potential threat to NATO bases in Iceland but the Brits continued with and ended up with no fishing fleet'...as opposed to the Cod Wars..

                      there were four in total
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the article, a 'DoD spokesman' is quoted as saying that the new NS vessels will not carry helicopters because the experience with the Eithne proved that helicopters could not be operated by vessels of this size in the waters off the west coast of Ireland.

                        Maybe someone should tell that to the other navies and coastguards that operate helicopters off similar-size vessels in similar sea conditions?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I know most of that Murph I was just kidding
                          should hae put a in the original post
                          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by carrington View Post
                            In the article, a 'DoD spokesman' is quoted as saying that the new NS vessels will not carry helicopters because the experience with the Eithne proved that helicopters could not be operated by vessels of this size in the waters off the west coast of Ireland.

                            Maybe someone should tell that to the other navies and coastguards that operate helicopters off similar-size vessels in similar sea conditions?

                            You find me a Navy that operates Helis in a sea state Greater than six, in a vessel smaller than 80M first.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              You find me a Navy that operates Helis in a sea state Greater than six, in a vessel smaller than 80M first.
                              There are always limits on the operation of equipment at sea. Does the NS routinely launch RIBs in sea states >6?

                              As you know, most OPVs in the 80m range can operate helicopters: for example, the RN's Castle class and HMS Clyde, the modified River class; the New Zealand Protector class, based on the design of LE Róisín and Niamh; the Swedish Visby class; Iceland's coastguard OPVs; the US Coastguard's medium cutters....... I'm sure there are more..

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