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Dead sailor had no breathing gear

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  • spider
    replied
    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Sikmilar case involving the British Army and another vessel of NI recently some one posted the link here

    Made some recommendations at the time..obviously lessons not learned.

    Confined space permit to work comes to mind.
    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...diamond+bulker

    Leave a comment:


  • simon
    replied
    Very sad. My worst nightmare. It happens far too often.
    But with reduced crews, quick turnrounds and reduced crew numbers, poorly educated crew without the level of understanding of HSE they should have, pressure to cut corners and save time.
    Tank entry proceedure varies from company to company, but its farly standard

    1. Ballast tank opened
    2. Ballast tank vented
    3. Ballast tank checked for oxygen level and dangerous gas (e.g - methane)
    Every ship must have a certified, calibrated oxygen meter.
    4. Work permit issued
    5. work carried out - tank watcher in positon on standby outside tank with BA set

    Even big ballast tanks can lack oxygen due to corrosion, or have high levels of methane etc. due to mud sucked up in ballast water.

    Although this was a cruise ship its worth mentioning ballast tanks in bulkers, as double bottoms may have small holes in te tank tops.
    Cargos like steel scrap, swarf etc will suck the O2 out, cargos like rice, woodchip, logs etc will take out O2 and fill the void with carbonic gas

    Fuel, oil, waste oil, lube oil tanks need a special gas free certificate from shore side specialists.

    There is also the possibility this may have been adjacent to an oil/sewage tank - there does not need to be a leak in the tank, even the pipelines can be a conduit.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmtts
    replied
    The MAIB have just published the investigative report into the incident.

    A crewman who suffocated in a cruise ship's ballast tank did not have the necessary hazard permit, according to the report.

    http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/.../saga_rose.cfm

    Leave a comment:


  • pmtts
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoker View Post
    Thank you for the correction PMTTS, I realise reading my post now that I appear to quote the time table of MV Saga Rose, this was not my intention, I used these times to illustrate a typical stay in port, the pressures the crew (and port officials) are under and the sometimes tragic results.
    No problems Stoker. However this is not the first time the Saga Rose has appeared in an MAIB investigation.

    Back in 1997 a fire broke out whilst in dry dock at Southampton below the Master's cabin in an electrical locker.
    Last edited by pmtts; 1 July 2008, 14:18.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoker
    replied
    Death in Ballast Tk.

    Thank you for the correction PMTTS, I realise reading my post now that I appear to quote the time table of MV Saga Rose, this was not my intention, I used these times to illustrate a typical stay in port, the pressures the crew (and port officials) are under and the sometimes tragic results.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmtts
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoker View Post
    I am a bit sceptical about this report.I doubt if it was a ballast tk. I've been in lots of ballast tks.
    The Marine Accident Investigation Board currently states at this preliminary stage of the current investigation :

    Fatal accident to crewman in the ballast tank while alongside in Southampton

    Originally posted by Stoker
    They had three to four hours in port, in at 1pm sail at 5 pm and a load of maintenance to carry out in between.So short cuts are inevitably taken.
    Ive never seen a cruise vessel dock for 5 hours at Southampton. Normal arrival time are from 05:30 up until 07:00.

    All vessels normally depart at 17:00 but can depart at a later time. However cruise vessels spend at least 11 hours in Port.

    On the day of the fatal accident, Saga Rose docked at 06:00 and the call to the emergency services was made at around 14:30.
    Last edited by pmtts; 1 July 2008, 00:22.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoker
    replied
    Death in Ballast tk.

    I am a bit sceptical about this report.I doubt if it was a ballast tk. I've been in lots of ballast tks. you do not need BA sets to enter. they are usually big tks. on this vessel 300--400 tonnes at least, also they are well ventilated, they need to be as the pumps would pump 600 tonnes per hour, 10 M cu per minute. There are several other types of tanks where you do need BA sets ; Heavy oil, Diesel oil, Lub oil, Grey water, Black water, Bilge Water, plus a few more.

    What went wrong here was not that the safety regulations were not in place, but because of the way the vessel operated it was not possible to apply them.They had three to four hours in port, in at 1pm sail at 5 pm and a load of maintenance to carry out in between.So short cuts are inevitably taken. If the vessel is late sailing, it is assumed the passengers will think something serious is wrong, so the pressure is always on the crew to sail This is a commercial fact of life, I'm sure there are military parallels, but in the world of commerce mens' lives should not be put at risk in this way.

    The Enquiry will find that someone of middle rank was responsible, what they won't say is that those under this person were too low down and can't be held responsible, and that those over him had themselves covered.

    If this unfortunate person (he of middle rank) were Irish or British he or she could have said " STOP" and their Trade Union would have backed them, but as he or she was undoubtably Eastern European or Fillipino and badly needed the job they kept their mouths shut and thus a man died.

    Leave a comment:


  • Test Pilot
    replied
    Originally posted by SURPLUS View Post
    I
    It turned out he hooked his airline up to a Nitrogen outlet instead of Oxygen. Poor Bastard.

    Sad.
    Breathable air connections should not be inter changeable with other gas connections.

    Was at the Saga Rose, when the emergengy services arrived. The whole area was sealed off to keep the press and public out. Didn't know what happened until I saw it on the news that evening. Sad.

    Leave a comment:


  • SURPLUS
    replied
    I was on a tour of a U.S. Carrier in home of the U.S. sixth fleet in Virginia .

    We had heard one of the Aircraft techs was riviting a patch on the inside of an Aircraft fuel tank. Due to residual fumes he wore breathing apperatus. He was found dead after only ten minutes by his colleague, who was wondering why nothing was happening.

    It turned out he hooked his airline up to a Nitrogen outlet instead of Oxygen. Poor Bastard.

    Sad.

    Leave a comment:


  • hptmurphy
    replied
    The pair inspected the tank without a safety officer or written permission, which is required by Saga due to the low air levels,
    Sikmilar case involving the British Army and another vessel of NI recently some one posted the link here

    Made some recommendations at the time..obviously lessons not learned.

    Confined space permit to work comes to mind.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sea Toby
    replied
    A similar incident happened last year with the former USS Trenton, after she was sold to India. There is no excuse, safety should come first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Goldie fish
    replied
    No excuse in this day and age, unfortunately.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmtts
    started a topic Dead sailor had no breathing gear

    Dead sailor had no breathing gear

    Happened yesterday across from me. What a horrible way to go

    A crewman who died after running out of oxygen in a ship's ballast tank did not have the usual breathing gear, the BBC has learned.

    The Filipino collapsed and died on the Saga-owned cruise ship in Southampton on Wednesday. A second man was rescued.

    The pair inspected the tank without a safety officer or written permission, which is required by Saga due to the low air levels, a source told the BBC.

    Police are investigating the suspicion of gross negligence.

    Detectives are examining whether the men were told to enter the ballast tanks or told to inspect them from a safe distance above.

    Saga confirmed various guidelines should be followed during the procedure.

    These include ventilating the tanks well in advance and anyone wanting to go inside must have written permission and be accompanied by a safety officer as it is an out-of-bounds area.

    Saga said it would not comment on whether these procedures were followed.

    Fire crews spent more than an hour battling to save the man, who was in his 40s. His body has been recovered.

    The other man, in his 30s, was taken to hospital in a "confused" state but later released, police said.

    The cruise ship, which holds 600 passengers, had been due to set off for a cruise at 1600 BST on Wednesday.

    The passengers have been onboard overnight and were being informed of events, Saga said.

    An investigation is also being carried out by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch, which has a team of five at the scene.
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