Asgard 2 Sinking in Bay of Biscay

[Goldie fish]

Draft report shows 'Asgard II' may have collided with a container before sinking

LORNA SIGGINS, Marine Correspondent

THE SAIL training vessel Asgard II may have collided with a ship’s container shortly before the vessel sank off the northwest coast of France in September 2008.

A draft report of the official inquiry into the sinking has not been able to rule conclusively on the cause of vessel’s loss, but sub-sea camera footage of the hull point to impact.

The vessel was not raised for the investigation, but evidence suggests that planks stove in on either side of the bow and the full impact was taken on the keel.

The Marine Casualty Investigation Board (MCIB) inquiry is understood to believe the ship hit a container which may have fallen off a merchant ship, or it may have collided with a whale.

The draft has been circulated to all 25 crew and trainees, and other parties, allowing 28 days for comments.

The timber brigantine sank hours after it began taking in water off the northwest French coast early on September 11th, 2008, and all on board were rescued after a “textbook” evacuation.

One life raft failed during the evacuation when its floor gave way, and those trainees on board had to be transferred quickly to an alternative.

The life raft had already been serviced, and it is understood the investigators may recommend a review of service standards and methodology.

The investigation compliments the professional and calm manner in which the ship’s master, Capt Colm Newport, and crew dealt with the emergency situation, and with the high standard of safety training generally which ensured there was no loss of life or injury.

Training drills had already prepared the student sailors, and there was more than sufficient safety equipment on board.

The trainees who completed a questionnaire circulated by the MCIB praised the handling of the emergency. All 25 on board, 21 of whom are Irish, were rescued by two French lifeboats at about 4.30am on September 11th, 2008 some 12 miles west of the French island of Belle-Ile.

The draft inquiry notes that the ship was certified as a cargo rather than passenger vessel due to its construction. The sail training brigantine, designed by Jack Tyrrell of Arklow and commissioned in 1981, was en route from Falmouth to La Rochelle when a bilge alarm sounded at around 2am Irish time, denoting the ship was taking water.

The ship was due to participate in Le Grande Pavois festival, at which Ireland was also represented by the Naval Service patrol ship, LE Niamh . The Asgard II was due to have maintenance work carried out in the French port.

Capt Newport was faced with a serious stability situation due to the rapid ingress of water. The 20 trainees filled three life rafts in four to five minutes, and Capt Newport and two crew stayed on board for about 20 minutes to maintain radio contact with French rescue services.

Former Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea reversed his initial promise to salvage the ship if at all possible.

The MCIB conducted the main body of the inquiry and a final report will be published in several months.

[easyrider]

Is the report suggesting that a bilge alarm was what drew attention to the problem? Surely if the vessel had struck a container or whatever, the impact would have been very noticeable?

[ZULU]

Depends. I was out in that same weather system. If she was reefed in and slamming into a head wind, a collision might not have been instantly recognisable if she was moving slowly.


Our boat on the other hand would let you know right away that you were in serious shite as we were going at 20-26kts.

[Kieran Marum]

SEE 242 above

Draft report shows 'Asgard II' may have collided with a container before sinking

LORNA SIGGINS, Marine Correspondent

THE SAIL training vessel Asgard II may have collided with a ship’s container shortly before the vessel sank off the northwest coast of France in September 2008.

...
Former Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea reversed his initial promise to salvage the ship if at all possible.


The Defence Annual Output Statement 2010 has put the final nail in the coffin


PAGE 13

Programme 4 - Defence Policy, Military Advice and Corporate Services.

Programme 4 outlines the costs associated with the formulation of policy and military advice. It also includes the support provided by the Office of Emergency Planning to the Government Task Force on Emergency Planning. The Grants-In-Aid to the Irish Red Cross Society and Coiste an Asgard [footnote 1] are included in this programme.

Footnote 1 Funding for Coiste An Asgard has been discontinued in 2010

[Goldie fish]

Defence Forces Equipment

30. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Defence if he has received the Marine Casualty Investigation Board’s report on loss of Asgard II; when will be published; and make a statement matter. [30033/10]

Deputy Tony Killeen: I can confirm that I received a copy of the draft report into the sinking of the sail training vessel, Asgard II. This report was examined by my Department and any comments and observations were submitted by the due date of 27 April 2010. The question of publishing the report is a matter for the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, which is a statutory independent body.


Deputy David Stanton: I understand the Asgard II was insured. Was the insurance collected, how much was it and what has happened to it? Did it go to the Department of Defence or has it gone to the general Exchequer?


Deputy Tony Killeen: It predates my time so I will answer from memory. My recollection is that it was fully insured and that the full insurance was paid, approximately €3.8 million. My understanding is this money came to the Department of Defence, but was de facto transferred to the Exchequer.


Deputy Brian O’Shea: There was a proposal that there should be a replacement vessel for Asgard II. This arose as a serious issue in my constituency recently. For clarification, am I correct to understand that the Minister is not actively considering such a proposal at this stage? Is this something the Minister will consider in the context of a sail training programme? The big interest from Waterford is due to the fact that next year the Tall Ships event which will be here next year when we will not have a large sailing vessel participating. Also, the training programme was a very good programme for young people and it is a pity it has been lost. A proposal was also made that we should lease a vessel. What proposals has the Department in this regard?


Deputy Tony Killeen: As the Deputies will be aware, Coiste an Asgard is still in existence. I had a meeting with the coiste a month or two ago at which we explored some of the questions put by Deputy O’Shea. At this point in time, I do intend revisiting decisions that have been made on the future of the programme. This is as much, if not more, for financial reasons than for any other consideration. A sail training programme would not have to be dependent on the acquisition of a ship of the standard of the Asgard. I understand the coiste has been engaged in some discussions with sail training groups with a view to accommodating the people referred to by Deputy O’Shea in a sail training programme. Unfortunately, that does not address the Deputy’s difficulty with regard to the event at Waterford. It is highly unlikely that Coiste an Asgard will be in position to have a vessel. On the other hand the Jeanie Johnston is very pretty and I am sure there are people the Deputy could talk to in that regard.


An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I am sure the Minister meant to mention the Dunbrody also.


Deputy David Stanton: What is the Minister’s view on recent reports of diving expeditions to the wreck of the Asgard II? Are there items that could be salvaged from the wreck that may be of value, sentimental or otherwise?


Deputy Tony Killeen: I understand there has been some diving activity. As far as I can establish, permission was not received from the Irish authorities and may well have been refused, and likewise from the French authorities. My understanding is that when the Asgard II sank, before divers could be deployed on behalf of the coiste and the Department, permission had first to be sought from the French authorities, which was forthcoming at that stage. There have been reports that a formal complaint was made about current diving activities by the coiste. My understanding is that the French authorities drew the attention of the Irish authorities to the fact that unauthorised diving was under way at the site. I am informed that there are some serious health and safety concerns and issues in regard to ownership which I am not in a position to go into in any great detail. I understand permission was not received from either the Irish or the French authorities.

[hptmurphy]

Dunbrody is going no where.

Having recently visited I asked one of the parties involved waht would be her role in future tall ships.

She hasn't sailed in the past few years as she is not fit to and holds no cerification as she is to remained tied up at here berth in Wexford. She makes more from toursits visiting that she could ever do at sea.

[Goldie fish]

Never let facts get in the way of a local td shamlessly promoting his constituency. I presume the Leas Ceann Comhairle is wexford based.

[Archimedes]

The Dunbrody was never built to be a sail training vessel.
It was built to be a replica of a famine ship and thats exactly what it is.
This should not be regarded as a failure, it does exactly what it says on the tin.

It has no engine, no life boats and none of the other hundreds of safety systems needed to get the necessary certification to operate as a sea-going vessel. The Jeanie Johnson has all of these but it did cost nearly 3 times as much to build.

[Goldie fish]

The jeanie johnson is an abomination. She has none of the graceful lines that Asgard II had, and has bachinery cast all over her decks as afterthought.
To me she resembles a Ford Transit Van that someone has converted to look like a Model T.
Museum ships are just that.
Sail training ships are something else completely.

[DeV]

Apart from money is there any reason not to replace Asgard II with Jeanne Johnson?

- She isn't a sail trainer but would give good experience

- It is already State owned (Dublin Docklands Development Authority), just transfer it to Coiste an Asgard.

- The Asgard II had a crew of 5 + 20 trainees. The Jeannie Johnson has a crew of 11 + 29 trainees (I'm sure the permanent crew could be reduced if necessary).

- She has done a number of day-long and longer voyages to the USA etc, could be excellent tourist attraction.

- Jeanie Johnson cost over € 12 million (it was projected to cost € 4 million). The State paid a significant percentage (if not all of that). Return on investment??

- The demand is there from the public.

It could actually make a bit of money for the State or at least help get back some of the money that was invested in her.

[Goldie fish]

The ship has a permanent crew of 11 for good reason

[ZULU]

Story in today's times about Dive group mentioned in Dail questions returning items salvaged off wreck.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there,
Coiste An Asgard was probably the only State organisation that paid for itself. The actual office staff numbered about 4 and the crews were effectively all volunteers, ie, giving of their time and expertise for nominal fees. From what I heard, the Asgard II was regarded as near perfect by the crews in terms of handling, utility, seaworthiness, condition and all-round popularity with crews and guests alike. The Jeannie Johnston was described to me as being the exact opposite, being unwieldy, being a poor "handler" and effectively a poor ship, having been "designed" by too many people.
Right now, what the Coiste needs is a benign millionaire to fund a replacement.
regards
GttC

[Goldie fish]

Report out today.
Fantastic report on how the permanent crew reacted. Strong criticism of one of the liferafts, whose floor collapsed soon after it entered the water.

A report into the sinking of the sail training vessel Asgard II off the coast of France two years ago has found that it probably struck an underwater object.

The report by the Marine Casualty Investigation Board says the impact caused major planking failure.

However, they were unable to establish the exact cause of the initial failure of timber planks.

Asgard II sank in the Bay of Biscay in the early morning of 11 September 2008. Two French lifeboats rescued all 25 trainees and crew.

The report says the five permanent crew members, particularly the Master, dealt with the situation in a professional and brave manner.

One life-raft failed during the evacuation and the report found that the life-raft floor failed as a result of the deterioration of the glue joint between the floor joint and the side tubes.

Following the initial flooding of the trainee mess, water slowly leaked through the bulkheads into the adjacent spaces.

The report says the flooding of the trainee mess was the result of the major structural failure of the hull planking on the starboard side.

It also says the failure of a portable salvage pump did not effect the final outcome of the incident.

The MCIB says Asgard II was designated as a cargo rather than a passenger ship.

Passenger vessels are regulated to ensure that a single failure should not lead to a total loss of the system.

The MCIB recommended that the status of trainees on board cargo vessels should be reviewed.

It also recommends that the Department of Transport should review the law relating to sail training ships.

It also urges the Minister to encourage Lloyd's Register to complete the review of the survey procedures for wooden classed ships.

The MCIB says that the Asgard II complied with the relevant laws at the time. The survey regime and operational procedures were above the minimum requirements.

The report says the owners maintained the vessel to a high standard and there were no recorded problems with the hull or fastenings at the time of the incident.

Full report HERE

[timmii3]

Hard to believe I met the man who was the first officer of La belle poule the night Asgard 2 sank. He was commander of the Mutin. Dingle July 2011.