Hptmurphy history of NS :D

[hptmurphy]

Just to go off thread if I may and please note this is not a jibe at hedgie as I know him to be a great advocate of the NS.

But it does amaze how little members of the DF know about each others job and the nature of the different services.

I suppose I reallywas lucky to have served with the NS and then gave 17 years in a vary active barracks albeit as a reservist and even have a couple of friends in the PDF so there wasn't too much of an air of mystery about some aspects.

I think there is scope for an education programe for people to see and even and come and work with the different services within the DF.

Sorry to have wandered but it just struck home in this thread.

[hedgehog]

I totally agree Murph

and I am a bit jealous of the camraderie you NS lads still have

[Goldie fish]

The return of the Defence Forces handbook would help. Let those in DPM see how the other half live(or at least get a propaganda view of it.)

I would not expect those in a Dublin based unit to know anything about the Naval service, apart from maybe that they have ships that are grey, as the Naval service is very much behind closed door on an Island in Cork Harbour, while the Army are greater in number and more often seen and heard in places like the Glen or Kilbride. Even the lads from the Southern Brigade find their way to Leinster occasionally. During the Security Operation for the visit of GWB at Shannon, the Naval service, while involved were well over the horizon.

But unless the NS comes to you, you'll never have cause to know about them. Maybe the future ship plans will see exercises between the Army, Air Corps and Naval service again.

[hptmurphy]

Worthy of thread of its own perhaps?

[golden rivet]

Worthy of thread of its own perhaps?

yes fully agree to have a new thread on it as we may have times when exercises were carried out and the army and aer corp were involved.

[GoneToTheCanner]

I once gave a tour of the hangars in Baldonnel to a mixed tour of FCA/PDF, many of whom were oul sweats and, almost to a man, they had very little clue about how the place actually operated.They were all familiar enough with Alouettes and even Cessnas but had very little experience of the rest of the fleet or how it tied in with the Army.One thing that really amazed them was the amount of support personnel required to keep an aircraft on line. It certainly wouldn't hurt to spread the word, so to speak.
regards
GttC

[damo de muff diver]

I think the Naval Service of today would be a mystery to me
Was talking to C. Monks (L/sea diver in my time) 2 weeks ago in cobh . his son now serving doing pretty much what we use to do boarding trawlers and the like aboard Eithne and he says that we wouldn`t recognise the place
All changed now
Do know that in my time if any soldiers came on board most were surprised to see we had a navy
Like most things in life , if not involved know very little about.

[Tony Kearns]

I once gave a tour of the hangars in Baldonnel to a mixed tour of FCA/PDF, many of whom were oul sweats and, almost to a man, they had very little clue about how the place actually operated.They were all familiar enough with Alouettes and even Cessnas but had very little experience of the rest of the fleet or how it tied in with the Army.One thing that really amazed them was the amount of support personnel required to keep an aircraft on line. It certainly wouldn't hurt to spread the word, so to speak.
regards
GttC

Not only that GttC, it is amazing how little the Air Corps know about their own history and how often they ask me what type of aircraft was that when looking at old pictures.
Tony K

[Papa 242]

Hi Tony,
An appreciation of unit/corps history must be engendered by that same unit/corps.
Unfortunately that is not always the case and I witnessed the early collection of Heli.Sqdn. paperwork being skipped without thought as to what it contained! All I could rescue was Fergus O'Connors report from his SAR course with the RAF in 1963.
I know we cannot possibly keep all the paperwork created but a bit of judicious salvage would help!
Were it not for you, and a handfull of others, there would not be an historical record at all
of so much Air Corps history. The work you have done is, I know,deeply appreciated and valued by so many.

[YankeeHotelFoxtrot]

All I can say is thank **** the NS today is a million miles away from the 1980's. It really was seat of the pants stuff there for a while. Now it is more professionally run and all the better for it.

[cha the tel]

All I can say is thank **** the NS today is a million miles away from the 1980's. It really was seat of the pants stuff there for a while. Now it is more professionally run and all the better for it.

Yes that might be so,but weren't we saying the same about the 60's and 70's,sometimes you have to get the chips off the shoulder and not be a moaner all the time after all you stay in long enough

[hptmurphy]

All I can say is thank **** the NS today is a million miles away from the 1980's. It really was seat of the pants stuff there for a while. Now it is more professionally run and all the better for it

It may have been ,but then again did we know any better . I think the late Sean O'Brien hit the nail on the head in a television interview regarding conditions on the Corvettes that while they were primitive , there were typical of many navies of the time.

The NS really has evolved but then again we were the cutting edege of technology in comparison to other branches of the DF, the PVS were relatively new, the Eithne was leagues ahead of what the PVs were but where we seemed to fall down was in the quality of leadership.

The 'them and us' sitaution still existed amongts the officers and other ranks and was indeed fostered by the whole training system of the time. It was only with the advent of officers being selected from the ranks to become watchkeepers that this changed.

A lot of the attitudes amongsts the older NCOs were a throw back from the sixties and it needed younger people to move through the ranks faster to change this.

The celtic tiger and such helped this no end along with the VER as a lot of dead wood was removed .

Our command structure was still very subserviant to the Armys and that in itself needed to change. the raising of educational standards as a whole and the requirement for real time qualifications as opposed to lineage help the NS a great deal.

Some of the up and coming officers will take this to a new step on the ladder.

Promoting guys who were even progressive during the 80s, CDR Mark Mellet etc will have a great impact on the future development of the service.

I remember a time when we had a platoon of Army guys on board for a few days they were totally amazed how advanced our attitude was toward the job and how we worked the job every day as opposed to training for eventualities . This was probably the saving grace of the NS.

While we are involved in Fishery protection etc there is always a need to have guys in a working role.

This did cause training to fall down seriously during times as there were no replacements available to release people to upskill and also had serious impact on morale.

The whole 50th anniversary celebrations and some good publications ofthe time pushed the NS into the public eye and from a PR aspect it was very well stage managed. Notable events such as drug seizures and SAR work kept the public interest alive for a time but there was some serious negative aspects also.

In fairness to the Army it was beginning to haul it self from the doldrums and was becoming a lot more PR focussed and then the Army deafness thing undermined the whole thing substantially and tbh I don't think it has entirely recovered from that negativity.

A lot of the press were waiting with daggers drawn to hack away at the army at every oppertunity after this.

The Aircorp to a certain degree suffered from very poor leadership at higher echelons and was possiblly the service that suffered most from the brain drain of the late 80's early ninties. Obvious deficiences in equipment and the loss of D247 didn't help for a time. Again the press mercilessy cut into the AC in light of the MATs role.

I suppose scale wise the AC has fared worst in the public eye , very undeservedly so. I worked around aircraft for some years and became aware of the limitations of machinery and how it reflected on the people who worked with it.

the core group of people , and there is such a group, those who stuck with the services through the worst times are those who kept it all together and often made career choices that many of us would never have made, these are the people who to a degree who deserve the praise for keeping the whole thing on the rails even through bad leader ship, tough economic times etc.

even though the DF encompasses all three wings the amount of co operation is ofeten limited to specialist type of operations but the Army itself hasd begun to change this with greater empahsis on integrating the types of training those on the ground recieve.

i would hope this would help open the minds of people in all three services to how their brothers in Arms work and how different but yet similar their circumstances are.

[trellheim]

We have a closer understanding than a lot because of the SM now NSR parade the same night as us in the Brugha and we've chatted as Privates, NCOs and Officers about the different jobs...

No question about it if you want the closest to the reality in the RDF you should join the NSR

[Doc]

Seat of the pants

All I can say is thank **** the NS today is a million miles away from the 1980's. It really was seat of the pants stuff there for a while. Now it is more professionally run and all the better for it.

Well said. That's the best way I've heard of describing the NS in the 80's yet. I'm still amazed at the things that were acheived with the level of training, and man management, on offer at the time. And though we lost a few good freinds along the way, it really is incredible so few were killed. Dra God we were an accident waiting to happen !

[hptmurphy]

Well said. That's the best way I've heard of describing the NS in the 80's yet. I'm still amazed at the things that were acheived with the level of training, and man management, on offer at the time. And though we lost a few good freinds along the way, it really is incredible so few were killed. Dra God we were an accident waiting to happen !

With hindsight we can say this but we really didn't know any better, the whole DF was the same.

We looked enviously on other nations armed forces and it was only when people cross trained with them and came back and realised that they hand't it much better than us.