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Navy scuttles new plan for cheaper, faster patrol boats

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  • Navy scuttles new plan for cheaper, faster patrol boats

    Sunday October 11 2009

    PROPOSALS to equip the Naval Service with up to 20 smaller, faster and cheaper patrol boats to cover the entire coastline, with a new shipbuilding industry to supply them and create jobs, have been rejected by the Department of Defence.

    Under the submission to Defence Minister Willie O'Dea by the Euro Marine company, offshore P1-65 patrol boats could be supplied at a cost of €5m each, and 10 could be bought for the cost of one offshore patrol vessel (OPV).

    The department, which is engaged in a €200m ship replacement programme for Ireland's eight-ship navy, and intends to buy two OPV ships for around €100m if it gets Cabinet approval, rejected the plan saying essentially that the boats are too small and were unsuitable.

    Yesterday Clare-based businessman Bill Rigby refuted the department's arguments and said in his opinion most of the Irish coastline is unprotected. He said his boats are designed to operate in bluewater sea conditions and in shallow water where 62 metre boats being procured by the Naval Service cannot operate.

    "It is beyond our belief that two or three larger boats can be effective, as emergent activities develop, the time of response by these larger, slow-moving ships is less than acceptable as they are rarely in the vicinity unless by chance," he said.

    "It is disappointing that we did not have the opportunity to meet with the Irish Navy personnel who know ship construction and design," he wrote to the minister.

    Under his proposals he claimed his boats, with a top speed of over 40 knots, armed with two 25mm Bushmaster cannons with armoured crew spaces, would have a range of 1,500 miles, would be more efficient than the larger ships proposed and reduce overall costs.

    He envisaged an initial plan of investing in three boats at a cost of €15m-€18m, "which will give three-times the coastal coverage of one €100m ship".

    However, the department told Mr Rigby that his ships were essentially for inshore work and would be unsuitable. It said: "The present requirements for the Naval Service are for Offshore Patrol Vessels that can conduct 42-day patrols with up to 70 per cent of that time spent at sea in the harsh North Atlantic conditions.

    "As the weather and wave heights experienced in the north-west Atlantic are predicted to worsen over the next 30 years, the Naval Service require larger rather than smaller vessels at this time."

    - DON LAVERY

    Sunday Independent
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This guy has probably made the mistake of offering these boats as an alternative to the OPV replacement program when there is an obvious role for something like this as a complement rather than an alternative, especially in the drug interdiction role.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 11 October 2009, 13:45.

  • #2
    Nice to see that there are Irish people thinking about how to create jobs in the recession. These boats could be valuable for inshore work.

    Just re read the article, since when are the OPVs that have been tendered for 62 meters?
    Last edited by ODIN; 11 October 2009, 14:07.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not a bad suggestion but could also be offered to Customs, Gardai or ICG in an unarmed configuration

      Comment


      • #4
        Seems a no brainer to me- more smaller boats to cover the coast line as opposed to less bigger vessels.

        But I know feck all about Naval tactics;

        It will be interesting to hear the opinion of the lads who dont get sea sick crossing hte halppenny bridge
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #5
          yeah but you'd wonder all the same about how it'd stand up to a bad squall offshore. Doesn't sound very big to me tbh
          Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
          Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
          Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
          Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

          Comment


          • #6
            The man seems to have no concept of where the Naval Service carries out the Majority of its patrolling.

            There are many more established launch manufacturers in the country that provide a far more suitable craft. Why does this company(who seem to have appeard from nowhere) suddenly decide its product is better than anything else available?

            Has the company a background in building patrol craft(like other Irish companies)?

            Its very easy to come up with wonderful ideas how to make a fast buck. the Problem lies in delivering a finished product that delivers what you promised.

            There is a Cork company that would love to provide hundreds of 55foot craft for the Naval service, but, as his order books are already full providing craft to port authorities and police forces elsewhere, He intends to wait until the NS actually want such a craft before he offers them a few.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Shold the Navy go for a lot of smaller craft

              or a few big vessels
              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
              Are full of passionate intensity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                Shold the Navy go for a lot of smaller craft

                or a few big vessels
                or helicopters!
                Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lots more Big craft. Its not nice to be climbing a wave that is taller than your vessel is long.

                  Just a quick reminder about the actual sea conditions out there...

                  http://www.knmi.nl/onderzk/oceano/wa...40/license.cgi

                  The red bit is where waves are 8 metres high or more. And these are ordinary waves, not freak waves or tsunamis.



                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would say a combination of both. Larger vessels for the offshore patrol and smaller vessels coastal patrol to shore up what is in security terms a porous coastline. Not any fault of the Navy but 8 vessels cannot cover the entire coast.

                    Goldie, not my area of expertise but does this sound like something a fair bit larger than what Safehaven are building in Cork, what with a range of 1500 miles, armoured crew spaces and two 25mm Bushmasters? Sounds like something closer to the US Cyclone class:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_class_Patrol_ship

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Cyclone class looks interesting. If the price was right, and they could work on inshore work, they why not have a few.
                      What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                        I would say a combination of both. Larger vessels for the offshore patrol and smaller vessels coastal patrol to shore up what is in security terms a porous coastline. Not any fault of the Navy but 8 vessels cannot cover the entire coast.

                        Goldie, not my area of expertise but does this sound like something a fair bit larger than what Safehaven are building in Cork, what with a range of 1500 miles, armoured crew spaces and two 25mm Bushmasters? Sounds like something closer to the US Cyclone class:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_class_Patrol_ship
                        Right thats like seeing horse hoof marks in the woods and immediately assuming zebra.

                        Nobody knows what type of craft this person was offering, except himself. Who has he built boats(of any type) for before? If the plan is so great who else is using them? What other navies have armoured crew spaces? Armoured against what exactly?

                        Of course the obvious question is who would crew them? If they cannot secure a single inshore patrol type vessel for the NSR what hope is there of getting 20 for the Naval Service?


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm with Goldie on this one. There seems to be just about no evidence of this guy's (or his company's) existence, other than someone with the same name is a member of some green party marine campaign. Why gamble on him?

                          Sure, larger vessels can't come right in to shore... but they can launch RIBs that can ( shock horror horror, could it be that the NS CAN actually do what he said they can't?!)

                          The boats he seems to be operating simply are not big enough. There's a REASON why ocean going vessels are not, in general, little things. What does he propose the navy to do in foul weather on a horrible wet and wild january night, 100 miles offshore in the north atlantic? Suck it up and enjoy the armoured crew space?

                          Yeah, it's a nice idea to have some smaller, more agile INSHORE patrol vessels, but that's not what's being procured...
                          Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                          Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                          Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                          Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                            The Cyclone class looks interesting. If the price was right, and they could work on inshore work, they why not have a few.
                            Because they would be used as an excuse to replace larger OPVs rather than augment them
                            "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

                            Otto Von Bismark

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                            • #15
                              Just wondering, what is the normal practice for NS patrol vessels when serious bad weather is forecast? Do they batten down the hatches and carry on, or head back to shelter? 24 hours warning of a storm should provide more than enough time to get back to the coast and find somewhere safe to anchor? Presumably if they're out there in that sort of weather, they won't be launching and recovering RIBs and boarding and inspecting fishing vessels, so what's the point?

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