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  • #16
    That does make sense. Where they were was a silly place.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      Cork NSR Unit is based in Haulbowline now.
      How come I regularly see them in Collins Barracks so?
      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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      • #18
        hense the word 'now'.

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        • #19
          hense the word 'now'. Started in May.

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          • #20
            I suppose some of the areas the NSR could support the NS could be:

            Shore security duties
            COMCEN (depending on qualifications required, ie does it have to be an CommOp)
            Fisheries Monitoring Centre duties (depending on qualifications required)
            Logs assistance (stores, driving etc)
            Ships husbandry etc (including during refits & dry dock (helps the manday problem))
            Limited gunnery - GPMG & HMG (do-able within the constraints)
            Boarding & RIB work
            Maritime Security (RIB harbour patrols, foreign vessel security)
            Military Police
            Sick Berth Attendants (depending on qualifications required)
            Last edited by DeV; 10 July 2010, 10:30.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              NS POs (and above) have the power - not sure if that extends to the NSR.
              The power is given under the Criminal Justice Act 1994... "a member of the Naval Service of the Defence Forces not below the rank of petty officer" may stop, board, search, divert and detain a ship.

              Looking at the Defence Act, the "defence forces .... comprising ... naval ... components" (it says the same for the PDF and the RDF).

              So potentially an NSR PO (or above) has the same powers.

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              • #22
                O
                bviously they can't do some of the skills - eg engineering, maybe weapons (due to the length of the courses). But not all seaman are specialised.
                Oh yes they are!

                Shore security duties
                COMCEN (depending on qualifications required, ie does it have to be an CommOp)
                Fisheries Monitoring Centre duties (depending on qualifications required)
                Logs assistance (stores, driving etc)
                Ships husbandry etc (including during refits & dry dock (helps the manday problem))
                Limited gunnery - GPMG & HMG (do-able within the constraints)
                Boarding & RIB work
                To have NSR guys do these they have to qualify....primarily as ships crew..no room for passengers which your description of intended roles for the NSR become.

                Ship is not a 9 to 5 monday to friday thing..its your life for two years.Until you can master that concept you fail.Twenty years on you still have memories of the guys you lived with.

                Its not guys joing for a couple of weeks and moving on.Its a full cycle of people who live to support the ship and each other... you can't do it partime with full time crew.


                NS POs (and above) have the power - not sure if that extends to the NSR
                Given that a NS PO is a professional and has undergone set training in depth to get to this role there is no parity with an NSR PO .NSR PO simply doesn't have the back round or training to operate within a department aboard ship let alone within the complexities of secondary roles.
                Last edited by hptmurphy; 9 July 2010, 22:22.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • #23
                  The NS fire fighting courses are the same - 3/5 days.

                  The NS PSSR course is 2 days not 1.

                  The NS First Aid course is 3 days not 1.

                  The NS Sea Survival course is 2 days not 1.
                  Theres the guts of two weeks camp that you are sending an O/Rate on and he has no primary qualification in any branch so can hold no appointment on ships crew until he has a branch qualification.

                  Take Executive / Operations branch.

                  6 weeks seaman ship course.. add six weeks gunnery course,, a qualify shoot and now he/ she is an SG3. Who goes to sea without any helm or boat time.?

                  Helmsmans ticket, tens hours unsupervised, depending on how long he needs to be supervised, smae with Rhibs given he has to qualify as bowman before cox'n and then has to have at least six months sea time with the required qualifications before sitting the exam ( there was in my time ) to advance to A/ Sea...and all after 16 weeks of basic training.

                  Break it down into weekends and camps a reservist wishing to hold an A/seas slot on a PV would need at least five years modular training to get them there.

                  Modular training is fine for the students.. getting the instructors is the problem for the time schedule require.

                  To get real ships crew on a par with NS is albeit impossible.

                  No doubt there are good people in the NSR who would commit to it but its not viable to do it for a handful.

                  Reserve coast guard locally ?

                  Transfer to the RDF ( A) sorry peeps look at the job in depth especially since we don't have specific taskings for them and I'm afraid time is up.

                  If they are really that interested join up..it will at least let you have a go at what aspired to be, but its not all foreign cruises and boarding parties.

                  Watches, boredom, lack of sleep, bad weather, lonelieness,seasickness,lack of time off, home life disrupted, long periods away from home, lack of privacy, blood sweat tears, vomit, diesel, moving world..thats the real world of the rating in the NS.. but thats the job you chose, and there is no other like it.

                  Its not a place for weekend warriors because of the amount of integration with other parties required.

                  Given the percieved role of the 1940s has gone in truth its wonder the NS has lasted as long as it has with no clear cut role.

                  They aren't a coastal protection unit any more and they can't be fully fledged ships crew.

                  I was under the impression that there was times that NS vessels couldn't put to sea without NSR personnel to fill some of the mundane seamen roles.
                  Hasn't happened..again no such thing as amundane seaman role. You have to look at the job spec aboard.

                  Reservists have been on patrols to learn the job and to integrate with ships companies but not as replacements.

                  If replacements were required grab the first bod wandering around the base and have the NSR guy painting rocks white or doing guards.

                  Home work time DEV...
                  Last edited by hptmurphy; 9 July 2010, 22:49.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    Theres the guts of two weeks camp that you are sending an O/Rate
                    All that could be done over weekends!

                    Take Executive / Operations branch.

                    6 weeks seaman ship course.. add six weeks gunnery course,, a qualify shoot and now he/ she is an SG3.
                    Not all, executive branch personnel are gunners I presume?

                    As I suggested the NS could look into the NSR personnel doing modules of it (eg GPMG & HMG), that is very do-able, they could be a different grade (eg SG4 or SG3 NSR).

                    Helmsmans ticket, tens hours unsupervised, depending on how long he needs to be supervised
                    And how do NS personnel get it?..... on the job training at sea! Which is exactly how the NSR could get it!

                    Break it down into weekends and camps a reservist wishing to hold an A/seas slot on a PV would need at least five years modular training to get them there.

                    To get real ships crew on a par with NS is albeit impossible.

                    No doubt there are good people in the NSR who would commit to it but its not viable to do it for a handful.
                    Agreed I'm not suggesting having NSR to exactly the same standards as NS sailors that is impossible (except for FLR personnel which would help the NS and the training of the NSR).

                    But if the NS is stuck, they do accept people trained to a certain level.

                    Hasn't happened..again no such thing as amundane seaman role. You have to look at the job spec aboard.
                    I'm refering to some of the jobs that a sailor does that doesn't require a 10 week course.

                    Reservists have been on patrols to learn the job and to integrate with ships companies but not as replacements.
                    They have been (or course not full time but very temporarily (eg to cover a short course or leave).

                    Home work time DEV...
                    Problem is there isn't much info out there!
                    But I have done a bit:

                    Some jobs NSR personnel up to the rank of LS have done on patrols:

                    Helm, lookout, RIB bowman, boardings, cleaning, comms, cable party

                    At this point, most of an NSR O/Ss training is done on NS patrols (usually around 3 x 2/3 week patrols), the NS personnel assess them in 34 tasks and on assessment they become an AS.

                    There is/can be spare beds on some of the OPVs and Eithne that could be filled by a small number of NSR personnel for training purposes.



                    From what I hear of the NSR there appears to be 2 major problems:

                    - standard of training of some individuals in some coys - that could potentially be sorted by closer supervision by NS (potentially made easier by centralisation in Haulbowline).

                    - what is there for NSR NCOs and officers to do onboard? (can they train people if they haven't reached the standard themselves?). Maybe POs-CPOs could do admin & logs duties at the base (and for the Coy, including training in RIBs & basic seamanship), maybe they could be trained in 1 specific area (so when at sea they could provide a relief for some of the duties of a NS PO+ at sea (they would be there at same time). Maybe the same could be done for officers (eg train them as boarding & fisheries officers and they could provide relief for some parts of another officers job). Kind of like an understudy who can take over part of the work.


                    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...?t=9768&page=2

                    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...ead.php?t=4795

                    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...t=11683&page=2

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                    • #25
                      With regards helm ticket etc, It took me 3 months at sea to achieve 10 hours helm time, and I was the only trainee.
                      You won't do it on an operational naval vessel in 2 weeks.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        With regards helm ticket etc, It took me 3 months at sea to achieve 10 hours helm time, and I was the only trainee.
                        You won't do it on an operational naval vessel in 2 weeks.
                        Incorrect-many lads in my unit received their ticket after only one two week patrole at sea.

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                        • #27
                          I composed a lovely long response that answered all Devs questions and then I decided it would only lead to more stupidy like SG4s ..beds .. likening PVs to cruise ships etc


                          And then I realised I was dealing with some one who hadn't foggiest about the subject matter so rather than frustrate myself by further indulging a moron I've decided to not comment further on the thread as obviously there is very low understanding of the topic with out the will of some of the participants namely the person who started it to learn as opposed to try shovel shit for the sake of it

                          Continue... your doing beautifully....why stop now.

                          incorrect-many lads in my unit received their ticket after only one two week patrole at sea
                          For the record obviously they had **** all else to do, most guys could do it over three watches but the fact they work ship and stand regular watches times may differ.

                          Again the lads in your unit one two week patrol one steering ticket.....where was the point given they made no difference to the watches others stood for the remainder of the patrols for the year.

                          Nice achievement in the NSR but then again when are they going to use it again?
                          Last edited by hptmurphy; 10 July 2010, 23:28.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            Nice achievement in the NSR but then again when are they going to use it again?
                            Well next time you go to sea you can go on auto.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                              I composed a lovely long response that answered all Devs questions and then I decided it would only lead to more stupidy like SG4s ..beds .. likening PVs to cruise ships etc


                              And then I realised I was dealing with some one who hadn't foggiest about the subject matter so rather than frustrate myself by further indulging a moron I've decided to not comment further on the thread as obviously there is very low understanding of the topic with out the will of some of the participants namely the person who started it to learn as opposed to try shovel shit for the sake of it

                              Continue... your doing beautifully....why stop now.
                              I'd love to know where I likened a PV to a cruise ship!?

                              I'd like tp think that i'm asking questions and making suggestions rather than saying this is the way it should be done. I know a bit about the subject but not a lot by any means!



                              Again the lads in your unit one two week patrol one steering ticket.....where was the point given they made no difference to the watches others stood for the remainder of the patrols for the year.

                              Nice achievement in the NSR but then again when are they going to use it again?
                              Of course it made a difference to the watches, it meant the Cox'n (I presume that is who details people for jobs) didn't have to find others to fill that role.

                              When they next go to sea!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                How about the naval reserve taking on the martime role provided by the civil defence ? They are a volunteer force so their courses should, i am assuming ( assumption being the mother of all f*&k ups ! ) be managable for another reserve service to take on ?
                                Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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