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Future of the NSR

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    2 years at sea, 2 years on shore (is it strictly applied?)
    Depending on the requirements of the service.

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
    .The NS while it has people in the base has these people on call... the NSR however are only available when it suits thems selves.
    2 years at sea, 2 years on shore (is it strictly applied?)


    Originally posted by easyrider View Post
    €877 a week! Where do I join?
    Subject to tax!

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  • easyrider
    replied
    Originally posted by dazza1 View Post
    You have a very prejudiced view of the NSR. Without the NSR the Coxns of the ships would have difficult enough time during the summer months filling gaps for leave without the NSR. I done 4 months at sea albeit not all at once and completed my taskbook to receive my AB stripes.
    The cost of a AB is in the NSR per annum is say 2 wks seatime @ 877 a week (incl PDA) & 450 gratuity in December. That equates to 2204EURO per annum and the pay for training is subject to tax & USC on that too. Compare that to the cost of training extra PDF recruits and paying them a weekly wage to have them powerwashing walls in the base or driving officers around waiting to go out on a relief. Compare an Able Rate PDF in the base on 26000EURO est to 2204EURO
    €877 a week! Where do I join?

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    .
    You have a very prejudiced view of the NSR. Without the NSR the Coxns of the ships would have difficult enough time during the summer months filling gaps for leave without the NSR. I done 4 months at sea albeit not all at once and completed my taskbook to receive my AB stripes.
    The cost of a AB is in the NSR per annum is say 2 wks seatime @ 877 a week (incl PDA) & 450 gratuity in December. That equates to 2204EURO per annum and the pay for training is subject to tax & USC on that too. Compare that to the cost of training extra PDF recruits and paying them a weekly wage to have them powerwashing walls in the base or driving officers around waiting to go out on a relief. Compare an Able Rate PDF in the base on 26000EURO est to 2204EURO
    And you have an inflated view of the value of the NSR.

    The NS while it has people in the base has these people on call... the NSR however are only available when it suits thems selves.

    Might interest you to know that no NS vessel has ever gone to sea as there weren't enough bodies...and thats a fact predating when NSR were even allowed on patrols!

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  • Guest's Avatar
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    You have a very prejudiced view of the NSR. Without the NSR the Coxns of the ships would have difficult enough time during the summer months filling gaps for leave without the NSR. I done 4 months at sea albeit not all at once and completed my taskbook to receive my AB stripes.
    The cost of a AB is in the NSR per annum is say 2 wks seatime @ 877 a week (incl PDA) & 450 gratuity in December. That equates to 2204EURO per annum and the pay for training is subject to tax & USC on that too. Compare that to the cost of training extra PDF recruits and paying them a weekly wage to have them powerwashing walls in the base or driving officers around waiting to go out on a relief. Compare an Able Rate PDF in the base on 26000EURO est to 2204EURO

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  • Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I was treated the very same as an O/Sea as I was an A/Sea.I still stood the same watches and did the same tasks as everyone else. Experience on certain tasks did dictate who did them at times but if you're working with a good bosun you'll find they tend not to differentiate.

    Six months sea time and an exam at the end of it were the qualifiers in my day, hence it was very important to get to a ship as crew rather than replacement to qualify for the second stripe.

    Once you got the second stripe you were still a red arse until the next guy came in the door behind you.
    Ya I suppose when your in the NSR it's like intruding on a tight knit crew and would be different for NS O/S's.However I got to stand the same if not more watches to help get experience which I found helpful when getting my steering ticket and so on.

    ''Don't over estimate the NSR contribution as it will only continue as long as mandays are available.If the NS decide not to fund replacement you are back to square one. '' Quoted from hptmurphy

    Yup unfortunately I agree but I believe the NSR provide much better money for value than our army reserve counterparts.
    Last edited by Morris; 11 October 2010, 19:48.

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    just said it makes life easier for A/B's when there are O/S's on board because as we all know ''shit flows downhill'' and O/S's get the more menial jobs but I've no problem whatsoever with that and the NSR have a plentyfull supply of O/S whereas the NS don't due to nearly all being upgraded to A/B .
    I was treated the very same as an O/Sea as I was an A/Sea.I still stood the same watches and did the same tasks as everyone else. Experience on certain tasks did dictate who did them at times but if you're working with a good bosun you'll find they tend not to differentiate.

    Six months sea time and an exam at the end of it were the qualifiers in my day, hence it was very important to get to a ship as crew rather than replacement to qualify for the second stripe.

    Once you got the second stripe you were still a red arse until the next guy came in the door behind you.

    But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the flag officer prefers to have ships crewed with undertrained inexperienced crewmen..
    If the NSR was to use the same critera to upgrade O/Rates to Able /Rates there might be some reasoning for having O/Rates at sea, but O/Rates in the NS are putting in the time for the second stripe..O/rate NSR is never going to equate to an A/rate as he is never going to have the experience.

    While carrying out relief you maybe insulated from the bigger picture of how an A / Rate is qualified and then slip back into NSR advancement procedure and suddenly re appear a few patrols later with the rank but without the experience.

    Granted the NSR are filling the gaps on occasion it must be remembered that ships went to sea in the past and still do when the NSR aren't available, even without replacements.

    Don't over estimate the NSR contribution as it will only continue as long as mandays are available.If the NS decide not to fund replacement you are back to square one.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 11 October 2010, 19:35.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Originally posted by Morris View Post
    You mean ASM boats-probably but as I've already mentioned the organisation has moved along way in recent years to the NSR and crews have received excellent training from the NMCI.
    How do you know what he means?

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  • Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by ZULU View Post
    I've witnessed plenty of mishaps from NSR ASM boats with marinas along the years
    You mean ASM boats-probably but as I've already mentioned the organisation has moved along way in recent years to the NSR and crews have received excellent training from the NMCI.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Not talking to anyone in particular, but it is probably not the best to use your surname as a user name if you intend going for a Cadetship in the NS.

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  • ZULU
    replied
    I've witnessed plenty of mishaps from NSR ASM boats with marinas along the years

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  • Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I still don't understand your argument.

    My argument is not for the good of the ship but from the A/B's point of view. I'm sure they would be happier to see NSR O/S's than A/B'S as ''shit flows downhill''. Of course an A/B is more usefull to a ship when looked at from the point of view of the CO.
    In responce to Zulu about his idea about Civil defence RHIBS at Cork week,they didn't last long this year after they crashed their new RHIB into the RCYC marina...

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  • ZULU
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    If the PDF had a problem filling duties with PDF 3*s and a coy/pln of RDF 2*s (who were up to a certain standard). I'm sure they would be welcomed.
    unfortunately this is not the case in the vast majority

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I still don't understand your argument.

    If the Army reserve offered the Army a company of 2 stars because all the army 2 stars had been upgraded already to 3 star, they would most likely be laughed out of it. An A/Sea is more useful aboard ship than an O/Sea!
    Given the choice, I'm sure Lt Cdr x of Pxx would prefer to have more fully qualified A/Seas aboard ship on patrol than a similar number of O/Seas, regardless of whether they were Naval Service or Naval Service reserve.

    But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the flag officer prefers to have ships crewed with undertrained inexperienced crewmen..
    If the PDF had a problem filling duties with PDF 3*s and a coy/pln of RDF 2*s (who were up to a certain standard). I'm sure they would be welcomed.

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  • ZULU
    replied
    Cork Week coverage was done by Club Rescue RHIBs, Civil Defence and Naval Service with attached Diver support some years.

    The civil defence are arguably better suited to the role as their training is rescue specific and their equipment and boats are geared up better. (Open plan, tiller outboard, MoB racks and drag nets/hooks)

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