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  • Originally posted by spider View Post
    No expert by any means but my guess is something along the lines of SD Northern River or SD Victoria;

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_Northern_River

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_Victoria

    Can deploy manned and unmanned submersibles...the new RN crewed vessel will require ISTAR capabilities.
    Most Navies use auxiliary craft for specialist duties in support of trials including deployment of large UV's or UAV's. Support type vessels with heavy cranage or launching systems won't be crewed with minimal crews or first trippers. Modern ships civil/military are absolutely festooned with triple of more suites of ISTAR type equipment. Most new Fishing craft (see this weeks Irish Skipper) have more sonar and UW scanners than most minehunters. There is a new Lerwick FV, captained by two young men in the Skipper magazine and the electronics take up 12 column inches. There is a similar vessel to be based in Skerries Ireland. FV Ocean Challenge.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 9 May 2021, 09:15.

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    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

      Most Navies use auxiliary craft for specialist duties in support of trials including deployment of large UV's or UAV's. Support type vessels with heavy cranage or launching systems won't be crewed with minimal crews or first trippers. Modern ships civil/military are absolutely festooned with triple of more suites of ISTAR type equipment. Most new Fishing craft (see this weeks Irish Skipper) have more sonar and UW scanners than most minehunters. There is a new Lerwick FV, captained by two young men in the Skipper magazine and the electronics take up 12 column inches. There is a similar vessel to be based in Skerries Ireland. FV Ocean Challenge.
      I wasn't thinking about commercially available sonar or UW scanners but about the more sensitive stuff alluded to by CTU @#3069.

      If this was just a case of employing vessels with commercially available sonar then there would be no point in deploying a Naval vessel on this task.

      Fishing vessels / commercial ships can't identify and track submarines.

      Both the vessels operated by have core crews of 14-16 pax with accommodation for more, mission-dependent.
      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

        Most Navies use auxiliary craft for specialist duties in support of trials including deployment of large UV's or UAV's. Support type vessels with heavy cranage or launching systems won't be crewed with minimal crews or first trippers. Modern ships civil/military are absolutely festooned with triple of more suites of ISTAR type equipment. Most new Fishing craft (see this weeks Irish Skipper) have more sonar and UW scanners than most minehunters. There is a new Lerwick FV, captained by two young men in the Skipper magazine and the electronics take up 12 column inches. There is a similar vessel to be based in Skerries Ireland. FV Ocean Challenge.
        We should maximise the electronic and control management systems on our new ship. In addition to AIS it is possible to also get bearing and heading information from GPS via up to 5 satellites. The Furuno SC-120 can provide useable heading information to 0.5 degree accuracy by using aerials 33.9 inches apart. There is an SC-70 with aerials 22.5inches apart but accuracy drops to 0.8 degrees. These would be as well as Magnetic and Gyro compasses but builds in triple and more redundancy. All systems can provide selectable data to ships operational equipment.

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        • OSCE working in Ukraine have reported they are consistently being subjected to GPS Jamming.
          Given the global reach of the main aggressor there, and their influence worldwide in conflicts we are likely to be involved in, in future Overseas Peacekeeping operations, it's time to move away from reliance on GPS for navigation.
          It has become the modern version of removing all road signs.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            OSCE working in Ukraine have reported they are consistently being subjected to GPS Jamming.
            Given the global reach of the main aggressor there, and their influence worldwide in conflicts we are likely to be involved in, in future Overseas Peacekeeping operations, it's time to move away from reliance on GPS for navigation.
            It has become the modern version of removing all road signs.
            Given the need for ships to proceed to sea on commercial and military undertakings there is no question that ANY method of Navigation and tracking must be reliable with redundancies built in. You can start by telling your equipment suppliers that their system MUST have inbuilt anti-jamming and anti-spoofing features. Try not to have oddball components or equipment in your outfit like Chinese phones. Globally countries must maintain some land based signals as a check on Satellite signal using the DGPS system. Most of the problems are occurring in Putin and PING lands so don't rely on GLONASS or BeiDou. The GLA are talking about closing down DGPS signals from Lighthouses. They should be stopped for now. I have mentioned that we should try out Inertial Navigation systems and maintain a competence in the Sextant and the Chronometer. Our ancestors discovered the World and there were never any road signs then or NOW.

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            • Last month's (July, 2021) 'Warship' magazine (pp.34-36) has an article about Royal New Zealand Navy's Canterbury multi-role vessel, and it's experiences, pros\ cons, and mentions to that it will have few years overlap with its planned replacement, to give that navy a two such ship complement.

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              • Originally posted by WhingeNot View Post
                Last month's (July, 2021) 'Warship' magazine (pp.34-36) has an article about Royal New Zealand Navy's Canterbury multi-role vessel, and it's experiences, pros\ cons, and mentions to that it will have few years overlap with its planned replacement, to give that navy a two such ship complement.
                Its called the Enhanced Sealift Capability. Industry engagement commences next year with the RFI going out in 2024, construction to start in 2026 with delivery in 2028 and the Introduction into Service in 2029 for the first ship. Indicative capital cost in the DCP2019 is more than $1b. The second vessel is earmarked in the DCP as mid 2030's.

                ​​​​​​From the NZDF Defence Capability Plan 2019

                Recognising the high value of sealift to humanitarian and disaster relief, and the sustainment of deployed forces, in the mid-2020s an additional sealift vessel will be acquired. Operating alongside HMNZS Canterbury, this acquisition will provide two sealift vessels, and will greatly improve the effectiveness of the Defence Force, and the resilience of the nation, and the region. The enhanced sealift vessel will have greater lift capacity than HMNZS Canterbury. The capability will provide a highly flexible military asset, including hospital facilities, planning spaces, and self-defence capabilities. It will also provide support for the deployment of a range of capabilities, including Special Forces, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and NH90 helicopters. The enhanced sealift capability will also improve the New Zealand Defence Force’s amphibious operations. Through the provision of a well dock, it will be able to conduct operations in a wider range of sea conditions, and will have the size and capacity to carry large equipment, and sufficient aviation capacity to allow extended, long duration operations. Its size will also provide for the transport of a larger number of personnel, allowing for the value of the increased size of the New Zealand Army to be realised. Following 2030, HMNZS Canterbury will be withdrawn from service. At this time an investment will be made to further improve the Defence Force’s sealift capability with an additional vessel. Options will be explored against the composition of the fleet, the wider Defence Force and the prevailing strategic environment.

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                • I guess Canterbury succeeded in demonstrating the need for a ship of its type, only better. The timeline is quite ambitious, in the scheme of things. RFI to delivery in just 5 years?

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                  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    I guess Canterbury succeeded in demonstrating the need for a ship of its type, only better. The timeline is quite ambitious, in the scheme of things. RFI to delivery in just 5 years?
                    The HMNZS Aotearoa went from RFI to commissioning in four years. I wont be in the least surprised that Hyundai Heavy Industries walks away with this project as well. They already have a 176m 17000 tonne LPD and a 160m 13000 tonne LPD that tick all the boxes.

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                    • We might as well change this thread to a RNZN one....I have doubts we'll ever see similar here.

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                      • Originally posted by Rocinante View Post
                        We might as well change this thread to a RNZN one....I have doubts we'll ever see similar here.
                        Have faith.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          I guess Canterbury succeeded in demonstrating the need for a ship of its type, only better. The timeline is quite ambitious, in the scheme of things. RFI to delivery in just 5 years?
                          Overall RNZNS CANTERBURY because of her origins had/has a troubled genesis within the NZ Navy. It was important to improve the vessel's responses and handling in ocean conditions and refit boat handling procedures and positions. The crucial lesson with RO-RO is that the only time she is empty in civilian life is the couple of hours between discharging and loading in port. At Sea she is always in the loaded condition. In Naval use some means will have to be found in adequate ballasting and improve equipment usability and functionality in rough open oceans. It is good that lessons have been learnt which can lead to a worthwhile RFI for future builds.

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                          • From the Infrastrata (parent company of H&W) share web chat page;

                            "My very recent understanding ( 10 mins ago ) is that the Irish Navy looking to replace the flagship vessel, deadline for tender was last May, I understand that H & W are 1 of the companies to tender, value €200M. Also looking for 2 post Brexit fishery patrol vessels, but it looks like these might come from New Zealand."

                            This was on the back of a webinar a week or two ago hosted by Infratstrata during which they indicated that they were hopeful of winning a contract from the Irish Government, and that it would most likely go to the Appledore site.

                            Now have I missed something...I didn't realise this had gone to tender yet?

                            I had a look a few pages back through the thread and can't see anything.
                            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by spider View Post
                              From the Infrastrata (parent company of H&W) share web chat page;

                              "My very recent understanding ( 10 mins ago ) is that the Irish Navy looking to replace the flagship vessel, deadline for tender was last May, I understand that H & W are 1 of the companies to tender, value €200M. Also looking for 2 post Brexit fishery patrol vessels, but it looks like these might come from New Zealand."

                              This was on the back of a webinar a week or two ago hosted by Infratstrata during which they indicated that they were hopeful of winning a contract from the Irish Government, and that it would most likely go to the Appledore site.

                              Now have I missed something...I didn't realise this had gone to tender yet?

                              I had a look a few pages back through the thread and can't see anything.
                              You haven’t

                              that was the tender for the consulant
                              Last edited by DeV; 9 September 2021, 19:24.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by spider View Post
                                From the Infrastrata (parent company of H&W) share web chat page;

                                "My very recent understanding ( 10 mins ago ) is that the Irish Navy looking to replace the flagship vessel, deadline for tender was last May, I understand that H & W are 1 of the companies to tender, value €200M. Also looking for 2 post Brexit fishery patrol vessels, but it looks like these might come from New Zealand."

                                This was on the back of a webinar a week or two ago hosted by Infratstrata during which they indicated that they were hopeful of winning a contract from the Irish Government, and that it would most likely go to the Appledore site.

                                Now have I missed something...I didn't realise this had gone to tender yet?

                                I had a look a few pages back through the thread and can't see anything.

                                Appledore can cater for 110m max.

                                The MRV is planned for 130m-140m so unless is is built in sections and assembled elsewhere, i'd be surprised if it was built there.

                                Brexit also an issue, would have to be tendered to EU first i would imagine.

                                My bet is on the Netherlands firm Damen with the hull built in Romania.

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