EPV for naval service

[na grohmiti]

I know. Its pitiful, at this stage.

[Turkey]

I've never seen a "we aren't going to do anything to replace anything." in such a long and meandering form before.

[na grohmiti]

Thursday, 21 March 2024

Questions (12)


Cathal Berry

Cathal Berry

Question:

12. Deputy Cathal Berry asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence if he will report on the proposed procurement of a multi-role vessel for the Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13281/24]
View answer Oral answers (6 contributions)

Deputy Cathal Berry


I would be grateful if the Tánaiste could update the House on the situation pertaining to the proposed procurement of a multi-role vessel for the Naval Service and if he could make a statement on that matter.

Deputy Micheál Martin


I thank the Deputy for raising the question. In fairness, the Deputy has an eagle eye on equipment and opportunities for the Defence Forces.

My priority as Minister for Defence is to ensure that the operational capability of the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service is maintained and developed. This is to enable the Defence Forces to carry out the roles assigned by Government. Equipment priorities for the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service are considered in the context of the established capability development and equipment development planning processes.

The detailed implementation plan for the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces was published in November 2023. It builds on the publication of the commission report itself in February 2022, the high-level action plan in July 2022 and the early actions update published in March 2023. This plan sets out an ambitious programme of work to move to level of ambition 2, known as LOA2, by 2028 and the significant and fundamental change for the Defence Forces that will be delivered across the commission's recommendations.

The commission's recommendations for the move to LOA2 include the recommendation for an accelerated programme of naval vessel replacement, to ensure a balanced fleet of nine modern ships is reached by early in the next decade.

In this regard, marine advisers have been appointed to support the procurement of a multi-role vessel, MRV, to replace the now decommissioned flagship, LÉ Eithne. This procurement is being conducted in line with the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform's new infrastructural guidelines, which have replaced the public spending code.

A prior information notice was published in the Official Journal of the European Union in January to advise the market of my Department's intention to run a tender competition to procure a MRV to replace the former flagship.

I remain committed to ensuring the Defence Forces, including the Naval Service, are equipped to carry out the roles assigned to them by Government.

Deputy Cathal Berry


I very much welcome this proposed project for sure. The LÉ Eithne needs to be replaced. That is an absolute certainty.

Perhaps touching on what Deputy Ó Snodaigh said earlier on this morning, the LÉ Eithne was built in the Tánaiste's home county of Cork. It is a pity we cannot build more equipment here in this country because, as Deputy Ó Snodaigh said, ethical procurement is important. If we want to be assured of the traceability of equipment, the so-called bench to trench, we should probably be looking at setting up some kind of companies that can make some of the equipment that we need for ourselves and we can be sure of their credentials. I would emphasise, of course, that there is a shipyard on this island, in Belfast, namely, Harland & Wolff, and I very much hope that it applies for this tender when it is published.

It still looks as though we are talking about it being a good few years down the tracks before this ship comes into service. Is there an indicative date, or even year, of when we would expect this ship to come into naval service?

Deputy Micheál Martin


I agree with the Deputy. We are committed to ethical equipment procurement. It is the ideal. Also, in terms of an earlier question from Deputy Mick Barry, we need to procure ships, aircraft, equipment and weaponry. There is a need so there is a need for a defence industry. It seems there are mixed views about that in the House. There is almost a sense here that we should have no industry in Ireland at all but I take the Deputy's point. There was a time when we could, and did, construct and ship-build in this country. It was many decades ago. I take the Deputy's point in terms of Belfast and its capabilities. I generally agree with what the Deputy has just said there. In terms of the multi-role vessel, I cannot give the Deputy an exact timeline here. It is a major defence platform. One of the issues is we need to enhance our procurement capacity. I have said it, more generally, and we are doing that. We will only know the cost of the MRV once the tender competition is concluded and then, obviously, we will have to provide for it in terms of capital frameworks, etc. I do not have specific timelines yet but we have notified the EU.

Deputy Cathal Berry


I very much welcome this additional proposed hardware. We should always remember that is not a ship that makes the crew, it is the crew that makes the ship and crewing the ship is so important. As the Tánaiste knows, I always acknowledge progress. The doubling of the patrol duty allowance at the start of year is a help. The increase in the recruitment and retirement age is also a big help. According to a post on Twitter, I see that 33 new recruits started in Gormanston yesterday. I wish them well in their training. There is a maximum of 11 months left in this Dáil term. Does the Tánaiste see a turning around of Naval Service recruitment and retention in the next 11 months? Does he see an increase in numbers before the Thirty-third Dáil comes to a close?

Deputy Micheál Martin


My hope is that by the time this Dáil comes to a conclusion, the gap between induction and retirement will have been closed in the first instance and then hopefully there will be a net increase after that. I am concerned about the recruitment system within the Naval Service and Defence Forces and it needs to change. We brought in consultants from the private sector to examine recruitment processes and approaches. It is clear from the report that what we have is not optimal, to put it that way. We need to improve in this regard. The retirement initiative we recently introduced will help in terms of bridging the gap. The Deputy is correct regarding the 33 recruits who started yesterday. We are seeing progress. A specialist recruitment agency has been appointed with a view to recruiting specialists globally for certain key roles which are required within the Naval Service. Every effort is being made by the Naval Service, the Department and me to see what we can do to make sure that we increase the number of inductions and improve retention. The extension of the retirement age and the doubling of the patrol duty allowance will both play a significant role in this regard. We have moved on many fronts, as requested. Hopefully, that will result in an increase.


Naval Service – Thursday, 21 Mar 2024 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas

[na grohmiti]

They'll probably have to have the stern ramps fabricated in scotland using only british steel. Adding 2 years to the build time.

[Sparky42]

The budget is interesting, but the timeline seems long for a shipbuilding nation. We should pay close attention, as essentially we are seeking the same vessel.

They are working with the UK for their replacement program as well for that so it might explain the timeline?

[na grohmiti]

The budget is interesting, but the timeline seems long for a shipbuilding nation. We should pay close attention, as essentially we are seeking the same vessel.

[DeV]

Dutch are going to replace 4 OPVs and 2 LPDs with a single class of vessel

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/03/dutch-navy-to-replace-opv-and-lpd-with-a-single-class-of-ships/

[na grohmiti]

Damen unveils new Multi-Purpose Support Ship (MPSS) to meet today’s defence & security challenges - Damen

27 FEB 2024 Damen unveils new Multi-Purpose Support Ship (MPSS) to meet today’s defence & security challenges


Latest Damen design an answer to increased use of drone technology at sea

RICK VAN DE WEG
5 MIN
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Damen Shipyards Group has unveiled a new ship design based on modern defence and security requirements. The Multi-Purpose Support Ship (MPSS) has been co-developed with the Portuguese Navy, the vessel’s launching customer. It is a solution for the increasing use of drone technology in combat and surveillance. In addition to its primary function, the MPSS is designed to fulfil a wide range of additional tasks, including auxiliary roles.




Damen has begun construction of the first vessel of this new design. The MPSS range, featuring 7000 and 9000 tons versions, combines the vision of the Portuguese Navy, with Damen’s proven process of shipbuilding, using standardised solutions wherever possible. As a result, the vessel can be constructed quickly and offers a reliable, cost-effective platform.


While the electrical, communication and navigation equipment installed on the MPSS will be military class equipment, the vessel will also use commercial off the shelf technology. This includes, for example, the mission specific equipment modules, by which the vessel achieves its multi-functional capability.


In this way, when not required to perform its primary function, the MPSS can be applied to a wide range of duties including managing drones (air, sea, and sub-sea), conducting amphibious support, emergency/disaster relief, search & rescue, diving support, performing submarine rescue operations and helicopter operations.


The MPSS 7000 is 107 x 20 metres. It is foreseen that it will be operated by a crew of 48 personnel, with additional facilities for up to 100 special personnel and extra, temporary, accommodation for 42 persons, for example in the event of a disaster relief operation. The MPSS 9000 is 130x 20 meters and is able to conduct even more operations.


As a result of its modular approach, the vessel could be utilised year-round and is also easy to maintain. The MPSS Series can remain at sea for periods of at least 45 days. All these factors contribute to the vessel’s overall value, significantly increasing uptime.


Piet van Rooij, Commercial Manager of Damen’s Defence and Security department, said of the new vessel, “The MPSS range is a response to the increasing use of drone technology that we see in modern combat and surveillance situations. We could see that such capabilities would be of growing importance for countries looking to sustain their sovereignty. At the same time, this is a multi-purpose vessel that can be applied to wide range of additional operations, thereby offering value for taxpayer’s money. This theme is further developed using commercial off the shelf technology, which ensure the cost-effective construction of a reliable platform. We’re very much looking forward to showcasing this new vessel, including at exhibitions, in the coming months.”

Love the lean manning.

[DeV]

Not sure if anyone picked this up but Portugal is getting this

https://www.damen.com/insights-center/news/portuguese-navy-signs-contract-with-damen-for-multi-purpose-vessel

https://media.damen.com/catalogue/defence-and-security/multi-purpose-support-ships/MPSS/brochure-damen-mpss.pdf

https://x.com/marineireland/status/1659129312132358144?s=46&t=AkgweFTsD599sqgWidCthw

i believe 1 vessel for €110m

[Sparky42]

As spotted on Boards.ie, Naval News is suggesting that the Tender will be published in October:

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/02/irish-naval-service-plans-e300-million-support-ship-buy/

A better picture of the ships desired capabilities, and thus the likely candidates, will emerge in October this year when a more thorough contract notice is expected to be issued.

[na grohmiti]

Marine advisers were appointed following a public tender competition for a multi-role vessel, MRV. Work is now under way that will lead to a public tender competition to cover the supply of the MRV in due course; the Deputy did not raise that matter but I let him know about it for completeness. That will be subject to availability of funding within the defence capital. Prior to procurement, I will assess where we are as regards naval strength as this purchase will be a significant investment commitment when we eventually get there. We are, however, progressing the procurement.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence debate - Thursday, 1 Feb 2024 (oireachtas.ie)

[na grohmiti]

As you say hopefully, though it does beg the question given the planned replacement of the 139s will we have maritime speced ones since we are now actually going for an equipped naval ship?

Jointness is the key. The 139 isn't naval, yet it is capable of landing on this ship in certain conditions. Air Corps are a long way from a naval heli, and its nowhere in their future plans. However that doesn't stop them from being shipped aboard and brought into use while the ship is at a sheltered anchorage.
I genuinely wonder when those photos were taken. Was it this week, while KD was in the Irish Sea or on an earlier occasion?

[Sparky42]

As you say hopefully, though it does beg the question given the planned replacement of the 139s will we have maritime speced ones since we are now actually going for an equipped naval ship?

[na grohmiti]

Have to admire the Air Corps for picking this week to take this opportunity.
Well done guys.

Is this the new view for our
@IrishAirCorps

@No3OpsWing
crews? Thank you to the Master & Crew of
@ZrMsKarelDman
of the Dutch
@kon_marine
Royal Navy who enabled us carry out this vital training in the Irish Sea enhancing our skills and airmanship on their Multi Role Vessel!

Hopefully this will be a regular occurrence.

[na grohmiti]

I would love to know how the brainchildren behind this project plan on crewing it.
Personnel numbers are still in freefall.
The P50s will never be brought back into service again.
Two of the P60s will likely have the same fate and it is looking like a third will go very soon as well.
It's been warned that the P70s will never enter service and if they do it'll be part-time only to try to justify the millions they cost to save face.

Lead time is about 5 years. Much can happen in the meantime.
For now we'll be able to run it on honkey tears.