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  • #46
    CG50 Sea Trials Video.

    Last edited by Lordinajamjar; 29 September 2010, 09:33.

    "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


    Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by pym View Post
      If this came off to the NS's advantage, it's proof that Charlie's up there, still wheeling and dealing on their behalf
      What makes you think charlie is up there?
      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
      Illegitimi non carborundum

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      • #48
        Originally posted by pmtts View Post
        They were three 95m F2000 Corvettes that were eventually sold to Algeria by Lürssen, on behalf of Brunei.

        In their place, Lürssen have built four 41 metre patrol boats for Brunei,



        and at least one larger boat,



        Apparently one of the problems with the BAE boats is that they were too complex, and the Brunei Navy hadn't the trained crews to operate them.

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        • #49
          Given that the P50s are now nearly 10 years old and it is poss that ship machinery esp digital control and sensor systems have moved on,that the makers of the machinery for the P50s have shut or being swallowed up,then the desire for commonality with the existing P50s may not now be possible
          The NS are supplying the spec so there will be commonality required.The plan was in place and the requirement on the table before the NS even went to tender.

          The ability to supply systems compatible with those currently in use would have been a precondition to tender.

          Don't think that just because the ships are in service 10 years they have no been kept up to speed. Every ships has the same basic equipment , upgrades are a constant and commonality is the goal at all times.


          It is also poss that the three repos may in fact have common machinery/systems with the P50s and equally poss that the three repos share same machinery as the Babcock tender
          they are not to the NS spec which has been developed around its own requirement with 35 years building PVs experience in the mix.

          It is acknowledged if you want to build OPVs you look at Ireland first.

          the NS bead a butter job is operating OPV, they know the job, they know what they want.

          If the VT model is the one we wanted day one why didn't we buy from VT?
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • #50
            Repos

            Whilst commonality is a good target,as the crews deserve the best fitout,it should not justify retaining systems which are obsolete and no longer best practise.
            I hope the NS are serious about commonality this time as in a 12 year period btween the first P20and the P31 no less than three different makes of main engines were used(ok diff pwer outputs were needed).
            In relation to the VT repos ,it is poss they conform to NS specs perhaps but were too pricey or the yard was booked out etc

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by danno View Post
              In relation to the VT repos ,it is poss they conform to NS specs perhaps but were too pricey or the yard was booked out etc
              See post 23

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              • #52
                Whilst commonality is a good target,as the crews deserve the best fitout,it should not justify retaining systems which are obsolete and no longer best practise.
                I hope the NS are serious about commonality this time as in a 12 year period btween the first P20and the P31 no less than three different makes of main engines were used(ok diff pwer outputs were needed).
                retaining systems which are obsolete and no longer best practise.
                Not the case as if new equipment is available it is trialled on the nwer ships piecemeal first and the fitted as standard on the older ones...ships boats being the prime one. P52s have crane launched boats that were then retrofitted to Eithne and the cranes and RHIBs were introduced on PVs


                Refit being retro ...if updated equipment is installed it is retro fitted on older vessels no the other way round..the PVs recieved auto pilots after the Eithne was fitted with them.

                As for engines...three different Class of vessel.. three differnt engine types..sweepers had different engines as well.

                P20 was a class unto her self. If you ever looked at it closely , been below decks or even seen it ,its immediately obvious..British Polar Marines fixed.....nothing wrong bit noisey and underpowered but they did serve for over thirty years,

                Pielsticks fitted to remainder of P21 class..Pielsticks also fitted in Peacocks by Swan Hunter and the RN no problem there

                Ruston couple to KaMeWa props was the ideal fit out for the Eithne for low speed and endurance and space, would have been fitted to any further of class.

                These guys do know their stuff. This is not the army going for Gucci kit that falls apart first time it meets with human contact, these are ships designed for patrolling some of the worst seas in the world and the people building them at this level actual over engineer them for longevity.

                i fear you mentality is too much in line with that of the army , most of whose offices don't have to use the trucks etc they but.

                Navy is a bit differnt as the guys designing and laying out these will have to go sea in them.

                While the older ships may seem some what dated, they have 99% of the same kit the P50s have just the hulls and engines become old.

                The accomadation on the peacocks is terrible but hey..guess what ..we didn't build them. We were the first Navy to move away from mess decks and introduce cabins for crews, seperate messing facilitis to living space as on the sweepers and even recreational space as on the Eithne
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • #53
                  repos

                  Fair enough,thanks for the clarification and confirmation that the NS seek out best equipment for the ships.

                  Meanwhile back at the thread would anyone agree that the bow/hull flare on the T&T repos is very similiar to the profile of the Interceptors built in Cork.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Danno!

                    NO means NO!

                    Listen what we are saying!
                    Niamh and Roisin's equipment is far from obsolete. Indeed it is still a damn sight more modern that what is found on other warships. The RN only recently copped on to our way of doing things, and made the River class with a similar standard of accom.

                    Fact: If VT tendered for our OPV contract, they were unsuccessful. If the design was as great as they say, everyone who needs an OPV would be buying them from VT.

                    However, they aren't. Oman, for whatever reason(no doubt similar to the BAE jet contract to the saudis) bought 3, that have yet to be delivered.

                    The P50 design has been used by Maritius, and New Zealand.

                    If you decided to change your car tomorrow, and pick a Ford Mondeo 2litre TDCI, metallic, with foglights, heated seats, and a usb port for your ipod. The dealer says you'll have it in January.

                    Then, in November he gives you a ring, and says he has a demo model 09 Ford Focus which has been sitting in the showroom for the last year, for the same price as the mondeo, only you can get it TODAY

                    Would you buy it?


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      VT Repos

                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      Danno!

                      NO means NO!

                      Listen what we are saying!
                      Niamh and Roisin's equipment is far from obsolete. Indeed it is still a damn sight more modern that what is found on other warships. The RN only recently copped on to our way of doing things, and made the River class with a similar standard of accom.

                      Fact: If VT tendered for our OPV contract, they were unsuccessful. If the design was as great as they say, everyone who needs an OPV would be buying them from VT.

                      However, they aren't. Oman, for whatever reason(no doubt similar to the BAE jet contract to the saudis) bought 3, that have yet to be delivered.

                      The P50 design has been used by Maritius, and New Zealand.

                      If you decided to change your car tomorrow, and pick a Ford Mondeo 2litre TDCI, metallic, with foglights, heated seats, and a usb port for your ipod. The dealer says you'll have it in January.

                      Then, in November he gives you a ring, and says he has a demo model 09 Ford Focus which has been sitting in the showroom for the last year, for the same price as the mondeo, only you can get it TODAY

                      Would you buy it?
                      Steady on,I never said the P50s were obselete, my point was that commonality should not mean replicating certain P50 systems if there were better ones now available. I understand the Oman ships are bigger with more offensive capabilities.

                      The P50 design was not used by the Mauritian coastguard, it could not have been as the MCGS VILIGENT is a 1996 model which predates the P50s.I understand that both the Irish and NZ ships are an evolution of the Mauritian design which in turn was a follow on of a Canadian ship.

                      Basically there are two competing designs for OPVs,the P50 type as outlined above and the British River class .The VT T&T repos fall into the latter.For my money I reckon the Canadian/Irish/Mauritian/NZ ship is more proven design and unless the repos can be shown (objectively) to surpass significantly the performance parameters of the P50s then it is not a viable alternative.

                      The focus/mondeo comparison is not very compelling as both ship designs are full monty OPVs.Maybe a better comparison might be the PDF putting in an order for more Steyrs to be told it can have m16s instead which may or may not fire same round.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        The RN only recently copped on to our way of doing things, and made the River class with a similar standard of accom.
                        the repos are still only basic copies of the River Class so are still behind the spec we have ...


                        I understand the Oman ships are bigger with more offensive capabilities.
                        Fall into the class of corvette as opposed to OPV
                        Last edited by hptmurphy; 1 October 2010, 23:20.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Do we have a technical spec for these vessels ? to what rules are they built, ie Lloyds commercial Lloyds naval? what sea state are they designed to operate in? they can get caught in some real shitty weather down there, I spent nine months running from the States to Port of Spain and beyond, The planters punch was mighty, at least what I remember of it. It is mostly flat calm and blue sky but there is a bit of hurricane dodging and a big swell running at times.
                          I don't suppose they are ice class but they could be built to a very high spec.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                            NO means NO!
                            Goldie I know both Murph and yourself have offered compelling reasons plus some really good insight into why the River Class should be passed over for the preferred Babcock design -- not sure that these River Class ships are really on offer to Ireland in the first place.

                            But still let me ask you this.

                            1: Do we have confirmation that the Babcock order for the OPVs is done and dusted yet?

                            2: In Ireland's current economic climate which appears to be worsening day by day how confident are we that any OPV purchase will not be put further back?

                            3: If BAE were to approach Ireland with a super deal e.g. spreading payments over an extended period do you think the powers that be would not be tempted to do a deal and is it really such bad news for the NS if they did?
                            Last edited by Lordinajamjar; 2 October 2010, 05:11.

                            "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                            Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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                            • #59
                              With regard to 3 that is the deal with Babock

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                With regard to 3 that is the deal with Babock
                                Not really. The River Class are ready to be put into service right away whereas the Róisín Class are several years away. Therefore you have extra costs of keeping two or even three older ships maintained and operational until the new ones come on stream whilst also making payments against the new vessels. In addition if the River Class are truly an option then there is the opportunity to sell the older vessels bringing in some additional revenue to offset some of the costs.
                                Last edited by Lordinajamjar; 2 October 2010, 11:50.

                                "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                                Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

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