Hms ark royal

[Goldie fish]

At the end of the day the UK's biggest deployment is in a land-locked country, against a foe who has no capability in the air, so an aircraft carrier is not top priority.

Libya?

[turbocalves]

Libya?

I said "not top priority" which is the case for Libya, the dont need a carrier to bomb Libya as is being fairly well highlighted by the campaign underfoot. And furthermore the situation in Libya is unlikely to last the ten years that Afghan has. Thus the need for a carrier is not too big, but if it is still going in ten years QE2 and POW will be in service. (probably)

[Goldie fish]

And furthermore the situation in Libya is unlikely to last the ten years that Afghan has. Thus the need for a carrier is not too big, but if it is still going in ten years QE2 or POW will be in service. (probably)

Fixed that for ye....

[turbocalves]

Fixed that for ye....

Touché

[golden rivet]

the ark was leaking again on last nights episode...

[hptmurphy]

Ark Royal is going to Turkey for scrap.As will the rest of the decommissioned type 42s.

The British government decided this to be the better option in lieu of some chinese business man wanting to pay abovel the scrapmans price and have her converted to a floating college in China.

Type 42s are too dependant on highly trained man power, too expensive to run and can't be sold on and as such Manchesters days are numbered.

Pity as I always did like the Type 42s and the Invincible class are a very attractive ship and the MOD has certainly turned history on its head by offloading The Ark while every body else is trying to aquire wings over the sea.

Invincible Class plus Harriers were and are possibly the most effective way to do so.....

But wit for it Brazil had hoped to be building a sizeable off shore PV fleet due to its expanding oil asssets but the Government has curtailed spending on new builds so maybe those three T&T OPVs will have a buyer after all.

[Goldie fish]

It is unfortunate that instead of improving on the Harrier further, they decided to replace it with a concept that had already failed when tried elsewhere.
It looks as if the VSTOL F35B won't make it past prototype stage. Delays in its development has held up the entire F35 Project. Indeed it's design has meant the latest USN LHA will not have a well deck, unlike the ships it is intended to replace. It is even suggested that should the F35B be cancelled, then the New LHA design should also be cancelled.

[hptmurphy]

Delays in its development has held up the entire F35 Project

Do the interested parties contribute to the development costs?

[Goldie fish]

The only remaining interested party is the USMC. The RN are going for the CATOBAR version instead.

[Barry]

I'd say that if the USMC could get away with it they'd want to switch to the CATOBAR variant too, and ships to match - but that'd be too much like real carrier air, so the USN wouldn't allow it.

[Mad P]

The new USN supercarrier on the way is primarily a CATOBAR vessel
with a new electromagnetic catapult!!

I'd say that if the USMC could get away with it they'd want to switch to the CATOBAR variant too, and ships to match - but that'd be too much like real carrier air, so the USN wouldn't allow it.

But the US Navy has always operated with a contingent of USMC aircraft onboard
so i doubt be too much grief.

[Goldie fish]

Not aircraft carriers. Amphib Air ops was a USMC affair only, on carriers, the only USMC presence is an occasional F/A18, but that is the exception, rather than the norm. USMC don't do cats and hooks. They are happy to leave Tailhook to the USN

[Goldie fish]

Last night's episode was a pretty damning reflection of the state of the RN, In my opinion.

The failure of the RR Olympus, and mention of the fact that only the Type 42s are the other ships operating this powerplant, has probably hastened the retirement of the Carriers. With the 42s also retiring, you have less choices of where to swap engines to. The fact that metal fatigue was an issue in itself isn't a problem, there are a number of companies in ireland doing quite well from reconditioning RR Olympus compresser stage parts.

Then you have the second of 2 Sea Kings going U/S due to a fault in the fire supression system. One was already grounded and it was scavenged for parts. What if both encountered the same fault?

Next you have the Harrier losing all electrics while in flight on exercise. Now it isn't as if they had been operating high tempo as it was, judging by the show so far, with most movement consisting of arriving on ship, being grounded due to weather, and being shuffled around below deck to make room for visiting Prime Ministers. Well done to the Pilot for getting it back to a proper airfield blind and deaf, even though I couldn't help thinking that NAS Oceana was not a great place to be pale and Ginger.

And then, another Aircraft shows its age, when a Sea King Commando from HMS Ocean suffers more metal fatigue to the tail rotor gearbox. Again well done to the pilot for getting it onto the deck of the Ark without further incident, but when combined with the other issues, there seems to be a neglect in ongoing maintenance, with a "Just in time" approach being followed instead of Preventative Maintenance. Why the Commando is still in service frontline still is difficult to understand, given its age and its time on the frontline, in The Falklands, Iraq 1 and 2, the Balkans and elsewhere.

Clearly these issues are not the fault of the crew, but of the UK government who again chose to cut corners to maintain the illusion that they are still a World Power.

[DeV]

Why the Commando is still in service frontline still is difficult to understand, given its age and its time on the frontline

Along side at least 4 other versions of RAF & RN Sea King, RAF Pumas and RAF Merlins. Why not just replace all with a common airframe? eg Merlin.

Merlin was designed to replace both the Sea King and RN Lynx if I remember rightly but the RN & BA are now investing more money in Future Lynx (ie an upgrade Lynx).

[Goldie fish]

Problem with Merlin is it is quite big for some jobs, and too small for others. It NEEDS the third engine for hover, whereas the third engine was supposed to be an extra safety measure. The fact that the comparable Super Puma and S92 can do the same job with 2 engines shows the issue.