Naval Wishlist(realistic)

[DeV]

Internal & External stakeholders - basically means the internal and external "customers" of the vessel

eg NS, Army, AC, Dept of Marine, EU, UN, Gardai etc

[Eddie Dillon]

Ireland Wed, Nov 25, 98

The RACO naval committee proposes a phased plan of fleet expansion between the years 2000 and 2015, complemented by sufficient additional trained personnel. By 2010 the fleet should comprise eight high-endurance patrol vessels, four medium-endurance patrol vessels, eight low-endurance vessels, two special craft for towing, pollution control and diving support, and one sail training ship. By 2015 the fleet should be fully equipped for a naval/ coastguard role, it says.

© The Irish Times

How can the White Paper maintain that we should and only have the need for a flotilla of 7 ships when RACO, this article and every other authority says the complete opposite? Another of the long list of jokes of this state.

[The Blue Max]

In a perfect world taking into considerasation if the the Irish Teritorial Sea Limits are extended i would love to see...

One X Meko A200 Type Multi Purpose Expedtitionary Patrol Frigate "EEZ,Overseas Recce Patrys..."

One X Meko 200 Multi Role Vessel (MRV) "Use For the Amphibious Support Roles To Assit Army etc.."

Four X P50 Class OPVs ''Patroling EEZ,Fishery Protection,Overseas Recce Party Support"

Two X P40 Class CPVs "Fishery Protection etc.."

Four X Small NS/NSR CPVs "Inshore Patrol Vessel And At-Sea Light Training Vessel"

And the NSR should be equipped with a Smaller Costal Patrol Boats which can be shard between the NS and the NSR for Operational Duties And Training etc.. and could be used to patrol area such as the Irish sea and in so freeing up larger vessel such as the P50s in the more important atlantic and South East Coast they would be crewed by a mixed compliment of the NS/NSR and could be of similiar design to the new New Zealand Costal Patrol Vessels. " This Is Just My Personnal Choice"

[Sea Toby]

I would like to see an Irish naval service of:

1 NZ MRV, or something similar. Even a smaller MEKO 200 MRV would suffice.
4 New OPVs, maybe 4 more Roisins.
2 Roisins, already in the fleet.
4 NZ IPVs, or something similar, large enough to operate inshore heavy seas.

The NZ MRV would provide proper sealift, helicopter capability both naval and army (air force), berthing spaces for training, and useful for patrols in heavy seas. It would also make a great fleet flagship.

Four more OPVs to join the Roisins. EEZ and fishery patrols useful for showing the flag. The British, Danish, Dutch, Germans, and the French have wonderful designs to choose from. Another four Roisins would be okay in my mind.

Four IPVs, with multiple crews, should provide the necessary inshore requirements, more useful for police activities closer to shore, a mission not being accomplished with today's fleet. Having six crews for four smaller ships would allow the smaller ships to see more activity at sea, without punishing a single crew. The Australian Armidales and NZ IPVs are large enough to operate inshore heavy seas.

Instead of a 8 ship fleet the Irish naval service will have 11 ships increasing its capabilities.

[DeV]

How about having your IPVs operated by the NSR?

[Dogwatch]

Wouldn't think it feasible with the length of time taken to train your PO/ERA's, PO/EA's, NWC & ME officers, to list but a few!

[hptmurphy]

Agreed..but look how the RN operates reserve ships and it might be agood model. in the past the first line of reserve were called up with nothing to do..except take up space in messes. wouldn't it be a better idea if people of this calibre were actually employed and paid to activate say a vessel that had been earmarked for rserve status.

hypothetically if the PVs were retired en masse....one of the three could be maintained in a reduced sate of rediness to be manned at certain times of the year when it would be viable and prudent to have an extra ship in place.

i think the NSR should be moved away from the small boat mentality...and given access to a ship that would be run by reservists for reservists and would be active for certain months of the year.

I know the NSR has moved on in its contribution but I feel that the fact the RNVR and RNR can man smaller vessels as mine sweepers etc..it should be a viable option here should ships of this type become available.

the early retirement of the PVs and direct repalvcemant would present such an oppertunity.

obstacles have been considered but obstacles are only oppertunities for those who doubt the capabilities of others.

[Dogwatch]

Agreed..but look how the RN operates reserve ships and it might be a good model.

I know the NSR has moved on in its contribution but I feel that the fact the RNVR and RNR can man smaller vessels as mine sweepers etc..it should be a viable option here should ships of this type become available.

The RN do not allow the RNR run their own ships anymore. The River Class MCMV's have all been retired and sold off (Bangladesh & Brazil bought most of them).


HMS Orwell the last River class MCMV to serve in the RN (as a Navigation Training Ship in BRNC).



The River Class in Brazilian colours

The P2000 class patrol craft are run by URNU (University Royal Navy Units). These vessels have an RN Officer in charge with a chief as XO and two to four other RN staff onboard all the time.



Giving a ship to the NSR straight off, I feel, is too great a leap, as yet. Get the senior NCO's and officers more qualified so that they can be utilised on NS ships first & then it could be taken a step further. One must remember that the majority of RNR personnel in command, etc, would have had merchant naval qualifications. Therefore, they did not require a long lead in time, before they could be utilised as OOW or MEO onboard.

[thebig C]

Fleet of the future?

Would this be a reasonable, balanced, affordable, future Irish Naval Service fleet?

• One multi-role vessel, which can deploy elements of the Army as well as carry out Naval patrols (as discussed extensively elsewhere on this board)
• Six Niamh/Roisin type OPVs, but the four new ones should have heli-decks
• Two PVs that would also be able to provide an Emergency Towing Service, Pollution Control…. along the lines of the French and Norwegian vessels designed by Rolls-Royce, (also discussed elsewhere on this board)
• Four to six Coastal Patrol Vessels – length in the 30 to 50 metre range, to operate up to 25 miles offshore (50 miles?) - to replace Orla and Ciara, and possibly also provide an MCM capability and/or a training facility, and a platform for increased Naval Service Reserve involvement.
• Naval Service Air Wing, based in Cork Airport, comprising the Casas (maybe an additional one or two, if the increase can be justified), and three or four naval helicopters, small enough to land on the OPVs’ helidecks. UAVs also?

These new ships would need smaller crews, facilitated by greater automation. Greater ship utilisation could be achieved by having more than one crew per ship and greater use of an expanded reserve. However, if necessary, the strength of the Naval Service should be increased, but not the overall size of the Permanent Defence Forces, so the Naval increase should be balanced by a reduction in the size of the Army.

[Goldie fish]

Heard you the first time.

[thebig C]

relevant to thread?

Heard you the first time.

Is it appropriate to 'Random Naval ships and boats'?

[Goldie fish]

It was the first time you posted the same thing.

[thebig C]

spin-off?

Yeah, but doesn't it happen sometimes that a discussion develops in such a way that it is better to open a new thread? But hey, you're the mod, it's your call.

[Goldie fish]

I will (by using the search function) find a suitable thread in which to put one of your identical posts.

You should try it sometime.