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Top five Navies in the world

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  • Top five Navies in the world

    Ahoy there maties!! Shiver me timbers. (trying out the naval lingo)
    I was just wondering if anyone has a definitive list of the top 5 navies.
    Perhaps it would best to have two lists, one for the largest and the other for the best.

    I'd Imagine the contenders for largest are:
    USA
    Russia
    UK
    France
    China

    But as for quality who can say, I understand the Dutch are a very good, but smaller navy. Wheras the Russian fleet is mostly rusted away.

    I understand the largest military budgets in the world are something like this:
    USA
    Japan
    France
    Germany
    UK

    So, anyone have the definitive data?

  • #2
    Depends on what you want to use as your criteria for best ...

    If we're talking about power projection, then it should (probably) run ...

    US Navy
    Marine National (Fr)
    Royal Navy
    Italy
    Spain ...

    At least until India gets its carriers up and running (ADS and Gorshkov) and the RN gets its two new carriers, that'll change the situation somewhat.

    As for Defence budgets, Chinas would definitely merit a place (if you go by their 'real' budget, rather than the official one).

    Where quality is concerned you'll have to talk to professional for a really informed opinion, but I would imagine that, for bluewater forces, the five Navies mentioned above would get a mention, along with Japan, the Dutch and possibly the Taiwanese. Where littoral warfare is concerned I'd suggest Israel, Sweden, Saudi and possibly Singapore and UAE as being major players.

    Then again, I've never even been on a Naval vessel .

    Good source material at ...

    http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/

    Comment


    • #3
      It is rumoured that China are soon to join the carrier using world as they have aquired a partially completed Former soviet carrier through slightly shady means..


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Goldie fish
        It is rumoured that China are soon to join the carrier using world as they have aquired a partially completed Former soviet carrier through slightly shady means..
        You mean they bought it at the Athy market?

        Comment


        • #5
          No ya muppet...athy is land locked....you couldna get a carrier up the canal!
          Seriously tho..The Varyag/Riga was sold by Ukraine , structurally complete but without sensors or equipment fit. It was bought for US$20m by Chong Lot travel agency Ltd(obviously not a real company)But on further investigation,the cheques came a company named Chinluck from Shandong,home of the Chinese Navy North Sea fleet..
          It was bought for scrap..at $600 per tonne..not exactly a bargain by scrap merchant figures..
          After an eventful towing from the Black sea and through the suez canal,(costing $8000 per day in towing fees)the Varyags location is today unknown.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #6
            Don't the Chinese have one soviet ship as a tourist attraction??
            Read about it in the paper before christmas.

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            • #7
              Apparently the Varyag hull is lying unused in the port of Dalian ... it was never fitted with either an engine or a rudder and is apparently a complete mess.

              A Chinese company also bought the Minsk, which is being used as a casino.

              There may well be another Kiev class ship in use in China as a tourist attraction though.

              The real prize buy from the old Sov Navy was the Gorshkov, which the Indians bought (for the cost of a refit apparently).

              From what I've heard it looks like the Chinese intend to get into the carrier game alright, but only after carefully examinig the engineering that went into various Russian and Western designs (check and see what happened to Australias last carrier ...) and then building their own. Theres even been reports that construction on a first of class was already underway ...

              Last edited by Aidan; 31 January 2003, 17:02.

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              • #8
                Then again, China has had the Melbourne since the mid 1970's and still no carrier has been launched. No point in having a carrier, unless you've got the escorts, SSN's and auxilariesor a sutiable warplane, which China doesn't. The US reckon that it will be 2020 until China matches the capability that the old Soviet navy had in 1989 Blue water wise, and that's nothing by today's standards. And fewer then three carrier is no use to China when American has 10, aoart from being useful targets. And if China Builds Carriers, so will japan, in fact, if it didn't lack them for political reasons, Japan would be the world's no 2 navy, which would mittigate against China launching one.


                China might opt to build on its strenghy, pore its money into littoral warfare. If they did go to war in SE Asia, since Subic's closure, the Americans are at a disadvantage base wise, and forcing the Americans into a battle alongf their coastline might be China's best bet. the American littoral combat programme and new designs will naturally take care of that, but China has the advantage in that its small combattantrs are expendable, and American units, no matter how small, will never be. Intresting; when GWB has finished his stupid pointless war in the Gulf, maybe he'll turn on China

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have to admit Paul, I've never really understood why China would want or need carriers.

                  The only real reason that spring to mind for me is prestige, as a mark of greatness ... China hasn't had an interest in power projection since the end of the 16th century, and its not as if they have a huge record in peacekeeping or humanitarian aid either.

                  Using a carrier as a defensive weapon seems like a very expensive way of doing business, particularly when you'll have access to large very high speed anti-ship weapons like the Yakhont, a very long coastline and a growing force of very potent Flankers. As you say, anything less than three carriers is only going to act as a defensive buffer for as long as it takes the USN to gather enough mass of force in the region

                  So apart from the "we're a great country, we are" argument, I suppose the idea of a Chinese blue water CBG only makes sense if you look at the possibility of them contesting territorial arguments like the one over the Spratleys with lesser 'regional' forces

                  Still, doubt very much if we'll see a Chinese carrier put to sea before the turn of the decade, let alone enter service with an operational airwing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't think the've boutght it yet just argreed to aquire it. Another problem is the choice of aircraft, the Indian air force wants it to not opperate fighters, the Indian Navy wants it to opperate the Rafle, and the Indian goverment wants it to oprerate MIG-29Ks for interopterablity with the air force. Also the Air force would rather India not buy the Virkant(Gorshov) for fear of lossin it's martime strike capacity, the navy wants home made French assisted desgined ADS ships instead, and the goverment is dead set on buy the carrier. I agree with the navy on the first point, and think the goverment should bosst defence to meet all the needs on the second.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Prestige is a big element in any decison to build, bit like the French and British strategic weapons. but if they did, japan would acquire carriers as well, bwhich wouldn't be in China's interest.

                      L.- It should be Gaius Julius Caesar in your quote, spell the man's name right,though a little surprised that you're quoting somebody who said "Gallia est omnis divisia in partes tres"

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                      • #12
                        Carrier what carrier??

                        Heard that story too Kermit, a US carrier plus suitable aircraft,in about '72 or '73. the price; join NATO, did not attach much credibility to it thou'.
                        But if you heard the same story too..................
                        "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                        Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                        Illegitimi non carborundum

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                        • #13
                          Irish Flattop?

                          Woah, wait.

                          Hang on. They offered us a flat top? Are you sure??? I heard that the austrailians were offered one around the same time, but if they were about to offload that much hardware, surely there were better candidates. I know they gave the Cabot to Spain. She was an Independence class light fleet carrier. I heard they offered to equip the army/air corp with some stuff for the same thing in the 70s. Hell, I heard they offered some F-16's just to use the air strip at Aran for launching refueling tankers. But a carrier? Don't know about that. More likely (and far more belivable/useful) would have been to offload some Sumtner class Destroyers. The main role of the RN during the cold war was to guard the northern approaches from the Sovier submarine threat. More than likely the us would expect us to support this effort.

                          Yooklid
                          Meh.

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