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Enhancing Naval "Warriorness"

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  • #16
    aren't the current ships a bit pressed for space to be able to fit any substantial new weapon's system:confused:
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

    Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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    • #17
      True,there isnt much free deck space on any of the current fleet,apart from Eithne.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #18
        Oh Christ who proceesed this shite...........

        Facts ....artillery pieces have never been fired or flown to naval vessels

        the recoil would send them over the side....Anybody who knows anything about field pieces would know that they have to be bedded in before firing....this cannot be done on a steel deck.

        shpots from all the weapons except the 57mm and and the 76mm have been fired in order to detain trawlers.

        Fact every round of 20mm on the aisling was used in the attempted detention of the FV Sonia in !985.

        Where would the back blast go when a rocket assisted weapon or a recoiless weapon is fired on board a ship?

        Why would such weapons be fitted to a ship that is designed for Fishery [rotection?

        The EU lays down regulations on what weapons are allowed for FP vessels?

        I have fired both 7.62 and 20mm in the pursuit of FVs.

        Boarding parties can be armed with small arms and any supplementary firepower can be directed from the mother ship.

        People know nothing of actual boardings and how dangerous the actually are without having to worry about wesapons as well....The only examples the most of you see are staged events for the press.

        the last resort of any FPV is the use of firepower.....there are many alternatives preceeding this...remember that they are only fishing illegally not trying to invade!...Under other conditions you may be trying to save these peoples lives as was L/Sea Mick Quinn when he died.

        naval gunners who are professionals who would rather use there weapons at a real enemy and not at some belligerent fisherman.

        Some of the best meals I have ever eaten have been of fresh fish donated by grateful trawler men.....so why should we patrol around the coast trying to blow them to atoms?
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #19
          I read somewhere that either Ciara or Orla fired at & holed a Spanish trawler with the 76mm. Is this true?
          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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          • #20
            no

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            • #21
              I dont think the 76 would hole a trawler...There would be a hole where the trawler used to be though...


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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              • #22
                Fact every round of 20mm on the aisling was used in the attempted detention of the FV Sonia in !985.
                So me salty dogs, whats the story behind this then?
                Meh.

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                • #23
                  the FV sonia was sighted by the LE Aisling off the south coast and made a run for it....pursued by the Aisling...LT CDR Jim Robinson ...was the OC.

                  Despite all reasonable means to stop it she kept going...uncover the guns!

                  Shots fired and still refused to stop..Aisling could pursue no further as the sonia was in UK waters. She later sank in heavy weather and the crew were picked up by a freighter and landed in Waterford....some say it was due to the amount of 20mm holes in here that she sank....others claim it was the weather...........All the ships 20mm ammo was expended so draw your own conclusions.......It started with rifle fire and worked up...with a few 40mm rounds thrown in for good .
                  measure.

                  The story goes that even the cooks were crewing up for a crack at her...all good fun no doubt
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #24
                    Lets just be clear that at no point did I suggest we needed more firepower fitted as standard or for FP roles.
                    The Area that most interested me was the idea of sending a company minus to sea on board Eithne and landing them on some sort of modified RIB or RHIB with some sort of weapons mount kit to provide protection in place of armour.
                    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Come-quickly
                      Lets just be clear that at no point did I suggest we needed more firepower fitted as standard or for FP roles.
                      To invade Rockall? Damn it doesn't have a beach and well wheres that Dauphin when you need to do air assault?

                      Realisticly I don't see something like this happening both in political and practical terms. The political aspect explains itself.

                      Practically:

                      All the ships are under-armed for air defence (and everything except Eithne is under-sensored), even if you carried a bunch of RBS90s or Stingers (many American ships carry stingers as a back-up, with several positions set up around the ship, essentially just an extra piece of rail so the firer can concentrate on what he is doing and not have to keep his sea legs working at the same time).

                      We don't practice naval gun fire support (NGFS). This creates problems for a spotting team, with lots of ammo dropping very quickly, with the spotting procedure not having been practiced. With a maximum calibre of 76mm, range isn't as good as you would like. That said with their automated systems 76mm and 57mm can put a lot of HE on the beach, but you don't want to be doing an opposed landing in the first place.

                      There are insufficent positions for 20mm and 50 cal weapons (the Belgian corvettes carry 8-10 .50cals) for dealing with small craft.

                      Everything from a recoiless rifle to an antitank missile and more (e.g. MLRS-type weapons and anti-ship missiles) can pose a serious hazard to ships close inshore.

                      Offloading crew served weapons and other equipment onto ribs would be complicated, remember if you drop a MAG or .50 cal at sea, it keeps going to the bottom.

                      Whatever about depth sonars, we don't have mine sonars.

                      Carrying enough men and equipment could be a problem (fire and ammunition on ships are major hazards - magazines are designed to be flooded).

                      Solve the above problems and we can go "invading people lite". In the meantime, use the NS where it does have skills - boarding parties, ship searches, SAR, etc.

                      Eithne could be used to say deploy a platoon aboard a target ship, even if there was some resistance. In a situation like that, having a second ship or an (armed!) aircraft would be a distinct advantage.
                      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                      • #26
                        I have to question your comment on Belgian ship armaments. The Belgian Vessels I have seen are very lightly armed,with 25mm cannon as a main armament.
                        L.E. Niamh is,in addition to her 76mm Main armament is armed with two 0.5inch HMGs and four 7.62mm GPMGs,and the Peacocks are armed with secondary armament of 2 HMGs and 2 GPMGs.

                        We have to get the idea of using Recoilless weapons out of our heads,our vessels do not have the free Deckspace to allow unhindered firing,without causing severe backblast damage,to both ship and firer.

                        The RIBs used on the P50 class are larger than on older vessels,but in practice theoretically the Mother ship would provide covering fire while the RIB makes its assault on target,be it land or ship.The US Forces use small boats fitted with an MG,but this limits the speed this craft is capable of due to trim issues.

                        In practice,when Irish Naval vessels have boarded Hostile vessels in the past,such as the Claudia and Marita Ann,2 ships were always involved. One covering while the other carried out the boarding.

                        Mine warfare,and the need for mine sonars..is a whole other issue.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #27
                          Stupid hypothetical question, but what would happen if a marchetti (or a PC-9) let loose some rockets at a trawler to stop her??
                          If you have to do it, you always have to do it right. Either it makes a difference, or it’s good practice so that when it does make a difference, it gets done right.

                          -Me.

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                          • #28
                            Are either type rated for operation over water?


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #29
                              would'nt the rockets be very innaccurate in those sort of conditions
                              Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                              Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Oh Jesus .....stop this drivel....get it out of your head that trawlers are beligerent.

                                these are merely vessels engaged in every day commercial fishing...

                                A similar analagy would be bayonet charging shoplifters.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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