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  • #16
    Thor however has a draught of 5.8 metres

    Samuel Beckett is 3.8 metres
    Ciara is 2.72 metres


    A CPV could be a dive tender as well but not an ETV
    Last edited by DeV; 27 April 2015, 15:44.

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    • #17
      Fassmer 60m CPV
      Outsorce the builds to Poland and we'll have them in 12 months. Nice looking vessel.

      The other short term solution are the RN River class which will be surplus next year
      Not as a suitable replacement for the CPVs if you want to downsize as they are closer in capabilty to Roisin and Niamh
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #18
        Any replacement for CPVs -when the time comes- must represent an advance on current caps. CPVs are twin screw, twin engine room, 76mm armed, FCS- and-IR-equipped fighting ships with multiple system redundancies including comms, conning, propulsion, generation. They mix sprint capability with slow single engine running or (in calm weather) loiter. Their draft gives them full coastal access but their seakeeping means they can work offshore. No need to list their disadvantages...we are all familiar with them too. But it would be a disaster to willingly replace these vessels with - as mentioned above- an 'ocean going tug' with some sub-calibre infantry support weapon as a main armament. Replace like with like, improve upon it in the process and -yes- we will take that ocean going tug as well, thank you very much.

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        • #19
          Looking at naval technology to be honest I don't think there is anything out there that fits the bill. In the main everything available is either OPV sized, fast attack craft, designed for much more sheltered waters, too small etc. The best all weather option is something like the Tamar or Safehaven but they are not really designed to be at sea longer than 24 hours.

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          • #20
            I believe that a former FOCNS used to refer to the CPVs as "the motorbikes"

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            • #21
              How about the bigger brother of the 4207...


              Damen_Stan_Patrol_6011_Sea_Axe.pdf
              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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              • #22
                Originally posted by spider View Post
                How about the bigger brother of the 4207...


                [ATTACH]7963[/ATTACH]
                I am all for the NS getting new ships but these damen ships are fairly ugly. Not as sleek as the current class of ship being delivered. Surely the new drones can venture in where the P60's can't. Bigger is better

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by spider View Post
                  How about the bigger brother of the 4207...


                  [ATTACH]7963[/ATTACH]
                  Draught?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ibenji View Post
                    I am all for the NS getting new ships but these damen ships are fairly ugly. Not as sleek as the current class of ship being delivered. Surely the new drones can venture in where the P60's can't. Bigger is better
                    Have you ever boarded a half decker with a drone?
                    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                    German 2: Private? I am a general!
                    German 1: That is the bad news.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      Have you ever boarded a half decker with a drone?
                      Nope. Couldn't even tell you if it is possible. Must google what a half decker is.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Draught?
                        My opinion is the Damen vessels less than 50m, with small crews, typically 12/15, are sortie craft, and not sustainable over long periods at sea. Their scantlings would be quite light and draft shallow for a West Coast winter pounding. With small fleet numbers we need a commonalty of capability, unless we decide on creating another inshore weather dependent, Force 7 or below squadron.
                        Given that Haulbowline is a base constrained by basin size and draft we are always restricted to vessel draft less than 4.5 meters. Even that draft at LWS might need an hour of making tide to get out of the mud.
                        We must NOT get hung up on requiring low freeboard for ease of boarding. An Ocean vessel needs higher freeboard in the forward half-length to reduce wetness and give maximum seakeeping qualities. Water coming on board should not be free to pass aft of the bridge.

                        Damen have some interesting designs but most are not really tested. Niamh and Roisin have been tested especially the former with voyages to the Far East and circumnavigation of South America. Roisin on the other hand had her Chicoutimi incident in heavy seas. An analysis of these two voyages might trigger a design concept for the ideal WNA capable vessel. Any decision on replacement vessels must always consider our need for MULTIROLE operability
                        Last edited by ancientmariner; 28 April 2015, 09:46. Reason: ommission

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                        • #27
                          AC currently assist NS with salmon patrols so no reason why a OPV couldn't deploy UAVs to assess if RHIBs (and boarding teams) should be deployed into places the OPV can't go.

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                          • #28
                            What about this one the Germans have it looks a powerful ship

                            http://galwayships.com/gallery/displ...album=5&pos=25

                            http://galwayships.com/gallery/displ...album=5&pos=24

                            http://galwayships.com/gallery/displ...album=5&pos=23
                            Last edited by Brian McGrath; 28 April 2015, 12:18.

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                            • #29
                              She and her sister Meerkatte are powerful ships designed for FP and fiscal coastwatch duties. The hull type looks good and may be adaptable to naval use also. The draft may be excessive at 5m+. The original Seefalke, now a research vessel , cost 94m$ to convert in 2009 to RV Falkor. They are pricey ships.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                My opinion is the Damen vessels less than 50m, with small crews, typically 12/15, are sortie craft, and not sustainable over long periods at sea. Their scantlings would be quite light and draft shallow for a West Coast winter pounding. With small fleet numbers we need a commonalty of capability, unless we decide on creating another inshore weather dependent, Force 7 or below squadron.
                                Given that Haulbowline is a base constrained by basin size and draft we are always restricted to vessel draft less than 4.5 meters. Even that draft at LWS might need an hour of making tide to get out of the mud.
                                We must NOT get hung up on requiring low freeboard for ease of boarding. An Ocean vessel needs higher freeboard in the forward half-length to reduce wetness and give maximum seakeeping qualities. Water coming on board should not be free to pass aft of the bridge.

                                Damen have some interesting designs but most are not really tested. Niamh and Roisin have been tested especially the former with voyages to the Far East and circumnavigation of South America. Roisin on the other hand had her Chicoutimi incident in heavy seas. An analysis of these two voyages might trigger a design concept for the ideal WNA capable vessel. Any decision on replacement vessels must always consider our need for MULTIROLE operability
                                I meant that the draught was too deep to act as a CPV.






                                According to the below the current CPV are limted to within 80 nm of the coast, with the expanding area of responsibility IMHO it may be better to get 1/2 x OPVs to replace them:
                                http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1999/11/02/00133.asp


                                According to the 2007 Annual DoD/DF Report, inshore salmon patrols accounted for 8 operations for a total of 60 days in 2007. That hardly justifies 2 x CPVs does it (especially when aircraft are also tasked) ?!

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