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  • #31
    Heres a mad crazy idea....
    Forgive me if it is too extreme for your closed mind.

    Lets say some sort of Yacht was bringing some sort of illegal items to a sheltered inlet, too confined to send in an OPV and it had not been intercepted in deeper waters. Is it acceptable for the NS to say "well nowt we can do about it now, dev decided we didn't need a CPV"
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
      Heres a mad crazy idea....
      Forgive me if it is too extreme for your closed mind.

      Lets say some sort of Yacht was bringing some sort of illegal items to a sheltered inlet, too confined to send in an OPV and it had not been intercepted in deeper waters. Is it acceptable for the NS to say "well nowt we can do about it now, dev decided we didn't need a CPV"
      Stand off and deploy 2 x RHIB with armed boarding party? What do other countries do? Our nearest neighbours for example don't have a Peacock equivalent. Do we need to deploy 76mm vs yachts? Arm RHIBs with GPMG if necessary as per international practice. Open to correction but surely if you replace CPV with OPV you get a much more versatile vessel? If it comes down to intercepting drug shipments in sheltered inlets has there not been a failure further offshore potentially caused by lack of OPV numbers?
      Last edited by Jetjock; 29 April 2015, 01:10.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
        Heres a mad crazy idea....
        Forgive me if it is too extreme for your closed mind.

        Lets say some sort of Yacht was bringing some sort of illegal items to a sheltered inlet, too confined to send in an OPV and it had not been intercepted in deeper waters. Is it acceptable for the NS to say "well nowt we can do about it now, dev decided we didn't need a CPV"
        Well then let Customs deal with it in their Cutters , after all that's what they have them for . If not take them from them .
        Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
          Stand off and deploy 2 x RHIB with armed boarding party? What do other countries do? Our nearest neighbours for example don't have a Peacock equivalent. Do we need to deploy 76mm vs yachts? Arm RHIBs with GPMG if necessary as per international practice. Open to correction but surely if you replace CPV with OPV you get a much more versatile vessel? If it comes down to intercepting drug shipments in sheltered inlets has there not been a failure further offshore potentially caused by lack of OPV numbers?
          Our nearest neighbours have HM Customs with a suitable vessel. As do the French. The French Customs also have a fisheries protection remit....
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

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          • #35
            The OPV's are fine for Yacht interception. Depending on size most large sailers have a centerline draft to keel of 3.5 to 4.5 meters. They are usually taken at sea following international tracking and information. I don't think there were any reports of loss of contact due to shallow water restrictions.

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            • #36
              Well from what's in the public domain, the raison d'ete is that the target doesn't see the big grey ship and BFO gun until after the boarding team are on board the suspect vessel. I do however know that for a particular op, it may suit the NS to use inshore terrain to mask their presence. There would also be very good reason why you'd want to catch them inshore rather than offshore.

              I do also know of a case of the Peacock's had to return to Haulbowline when tasked with a SAR op because due to the winter weather they couldn't get out of Cork Harbour (I assume it was a case of the Captain not risking the ship - more power to him).

              My main point is that the NS does need CPVs, but there is nothing out there that fits the bill (mainly due to crew
              size/endurance (big enough to take a crew of xx operate independently away from base) or draught (being too deep)).

              If we go for a deeper draught that the Peacocks, then your are moving (substantionally) away from CPV. If we go for something much smaller you lose endurance, flexibility, you may have to forward deploy which will create crewing/cost/security issues. IMHO that would rule out a RCC Faire type vessel.

              However, I just had a look at the different Damen Stan Patrol vessels available!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                Our nearest neighbours have HM Customs with a suitable vessel. As do the French. The French Customs also have a fisheries protection remit....
                We have two custom's cutters which for the most part are tied up in Kinsale.

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                • #38
                  Looking at Damen's offering the only vessel that can match what (I foresee as) the endurance, draught, etc capability that the NS needs from a CPV is the Damen Stan Patrol 5509 (58 metre) "Sea Axe".

                  The range could be a little too short and wonder if it could take an OTO Melara 76mm (for commonality).
                  http://products.damen.com/~/media/Pr...9_Sea_Axe.ashx

                  http://products.damen.com/~/media/Pr...trol_5009.ashx
                  Last edited by DeV; 29 April 2015, 13:21.

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                  • #39
                    The Italian P580 class are based on the Damen 5509 and are part of the current operation rescuing migrants in the Med so there may be the chance for some NS personnel to observe them at close quarters.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 25 pounder View Post
                      We have two custom's cutters which for the most part are tied up in Kinsale.
                      http://www.tyovene.com/site/index.ph...d_file/41/117/

                      Which if the NS purchased them CPVs, they would be constrained to short patrols close to Haulbowline

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Looking at Damen's offering the only vessel that can match what (I foresee as) the endurance, draught, etc capability that the NS needs from a CPV is the Damen Stan Patrol 5509 (58 metre) "Sea Axe".

                        The range could be a little too short and wonder if it could take an OTO Melara 76mm (for commonality).
                        http://products.damen.com/~/media/Pr...9_Sea_Axe.ashx
                        It is a little narrow gutted. Range seems short but they claim endurance of 21 days. The B.Veritas Certification is declared for sea area 4. If that is a fishing area, it is North Sea between UK and The Continent. We need an open ocean type vessel. Stick with nothing smaller than the Fassmer 60 Patrol suitably equipped.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          It is a little narrow gutted. Range seems short but they claim endurance of 21 days. The B.Veritas Certification is declared for sea area 4. If that is a fishing area, it is North Sea between UK and The Continent. We need an open ocean type vessel. Stick with nothing smaller than the Fassmer 60 Patrol suitably equipped.
                          Not sure about the certification but there will not be a fast shallow draft CPV that we are going to send out to the 200 mile limit.

                          The range of the 5509 is 2000 mm at max speed (which is 22.5-32 kts depending on the machinery chosen), it is 3000nm @ 10-16 kts.

                          In compassion, the Fassmar 60 has a max speed of 22 kts (so slower) and range is 2000nm @ 12 kts (so even shorter range).

                          The Fassmar

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                          • #43
                            The Damen brochure indicates that the ship carries 85.5 metric tonnes of fuel. Running on Full at 10,000 hp she has an endurance of 1000nm. Running on one leg at 5000hp she probably will make 2000nm. Her fuel consumption on full is 2.052 tonnes per hour or 49.248 tonnes per day. Speed on diesels , except for an emergency sprint is costly. The Eithne in tank testing and allied calculations needed around 7000 hp to achieve an average speed of 18knots. If you wanted to achieve another 2 knots you would have to double the horsepower and build a different ship. The Eithne on long passages used around 11 to 12 tonnes and made 10 tonnes of water.
                            The Damen vessel carries 11.5 tonnes of FW , cannot believe it would last 18/25 crew for 3000nm. Finally running on full the range of the Damen is less than 2 Days.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 25 pounder View Post
                              We have two custom's cutters which for the most part are tied up in Kinsale.


                              Never was a truer word spoken!!!.

                              Its strange that the NS has to justify themselves to the Dept IRO seadays & boardings where as the Customs Cutters sit alongside Kinsale for most of the year...

                              Surely if transferred along with the budget to the NS, they could utilise them in some manner (Diving support platform, inshore/salmon patrol, half decker boardings, guardship for visiting warships, training NSR, maritime surveillance during summer months with increased leisure craft on the water etc etc etc.

                              I do stress however, these should be an addition to the fleet, not replacing the peacocks but giving you 4 vessels capable of inshore work.

                              LT as CO would also give more command experience to your officers (See RNZN IPVs)

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMNZS_Pukaki_%282008%29

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                              • #45
                                I'm only going on the marketing info on the websites so am reliant on their honest.

                                As you said yourself cruising / patrolling speed is likely to be around 12-15 kts. It is also standard practice for PVs to run on 1 engine.

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