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  • Originally posted by Sarsfield View Post
    Replace the Bofors with a Thales Seafire and we'll take 3! PS : No more Dead Poets Society, LE Wexford, LE Waterford and LE Carlingford will do nicely. Well one can always hope.
    These new vessels are 2800t and the cost of a single one is the same as all 4 P60s.

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    • Closer to 40, all three were broken up in 1987, and had been minding the wall of the basin for many years beforehand, having been decommissioned in 1984.
      Only Banba, Fola and Grainne were still in service up to 1986, Folas last patrol included a visit to Waterford, Feb 1986, and then back to Haulbowline for Liam Moloneys stand down , having had her props entangled in a cable from the new bridge.

      Grainne soldiered on for another month or so, broke down taking recruits on a day out , towed back never went to sea again. Decommissioned over the next few weeks and finally towed out in Jan of 1988 to Spain to be broken. I watched Fola go out the harbour first week in Jan of that year early on a sunday morning.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Island nation, where fear of a small number of mines could close every major port in the country.

        Non-state actors have used mines & maritime IEDs

        We have a limited counter-mine capability through NSDS currently, that needs to be expanded

        Do we need dedicated MCMVs? Imho no

        We need vessels that have the space and facilities for NSDS to employ their current (plus potential future) assets
        As the Danes found out, that doesn't work. MCM is a specialised skillset, just dumping some equipment onto a ship and expecting the crew to do the job is futile. The StanFlex 300s ended up being specialised ships because of this. More thinking whether we could borrow the capability from our European Allies when we need it.

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        • [QUOTE=hptmurphy;470585]Only Banba, Fola and Grainne were still in service up to 1986, Folas last patrol included a visit to Waterford, Feb 1986, and then back to Haulbowline for Liam Moloneys stand down , having had her props entangled in a cable from the new bridge.

          Grainne soldiered on for another month or so, broke down taking recruits on a day out , towed back never went to sea again. Decommissioned over the next few weeks and finally towed out in Jan of 1988 to Spain to be broken. I watched Fola go out the harbour first week in Jan of that year early on a sunday morning.[/QUOTE I believe Fola went to Spain to be converted to a floating restaurant .
          Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
            As the Danes found out, that doesn't work. MCM is a specialised skillset, just dumping some equipment onto a ship and expecting the crew to do the job is futile. The StanFlex 300s ended up being specialised ships because of this. More thinking whether we could borrow the capability from our European Allies when we need it.
            Stanflex 300s were too small to be used for anything else.
            We don't have any european military allies. We remain militarily neutral. Inviting a foreign naval power in to carry out a military task for us is a no-no. Bad enough the RAF patrol our skies, to watch their own back door.
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              Stanflex 300s were too small to be used for anything else.
              We don't have any european military allies. We remain militarily neutral. Inviting a foreign naval power in to carry out a military task for us is a no-no. Bad enough the RAF patrol our skies, to watch their own back door.
              Yes we do - Art 42 TEU compels them to help us, even if we refuse to reciprocate. And about Stanflex 300 - some were used as FAC, some as MCMV, but rather than being swing role, they ended up specialising. You can't just drop some MCM equipment on a ship and tell the crew to go hunt mines. That way you end up with a mine hunter that finds exactly one mine. The one that sinks it.

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              • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                As the Danes found out, that doesn't work. MCM is a specialised skillset, just dumping some equipment onto a ship and expecting the crew to do the job is futile. The StanFlex 300s ended up being specialised ships because of this. More thinking whether we could borrow the capability from our European Allies when we need it.

                The international trend is for longer range remote USVs to conduct MCM from a mother ship.

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                • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                  Yes we do - Art 42 TEU compels them to help us, even if we refuse to reciprocate...
                  Read it more carefully.

                  Signitures to the treaty are required to help, but the nature, quantity, timing and extent of that help are matters purely for the assisting state to decide, with no role for any other state or organ, or court, to adjudicate on the appropriateness of that 'help'.

                  So, if Ireland calls for aid in minesweeping under A42 then every single signatury will fulfill entirely their treaty obligations by sending the Government a Mars Bar, or a WH Smith voucher. There is absolutely no treaty requirement whatsoever for the aid to be given in the way that you want it.

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                  • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                    Read it more carefully.

                    Signitures to the treaty are required to help, but the nature, quantity, timing and extent of that help are matters purely for the assisting state to decide, with no role for any other state or organ, or court, to adjudicate on the appropriateness of that 'help'.

                    So, if Ireland calls for aid in minesweeping under A42 then every single signatury will fulfill entirely their treaty obligations by sending the Government a Mars Bar, or a WH Smith voucher. There is absolutely no treaty requirement whatsoever for the aid to be given in the way that you want it.
                    European solidarity with this country has been been evident in the past three and a half years while the brits tried to bully and bad mouth us throughout Europe, I have no doubt that it will continue

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                    • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                      European solidarity with this country has been been evident in the past three and a half years while the brits tried to bully and bad mouth us throughout Europe, I have no doubt that it will continue
                      Have they offered to pay for the MRV, or to donate some boots - or are you just talking shit having not actually read the treaty?

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                      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                        Have they offered to pay for the MRV, or to donate some boots - or are you just talking shit having not actually read the treaty?
                        They aren’t going to cause we’re able to afford them

                        Naturally I’ve read the treaties and it’s evident that for the past three years European solidarity with this country in the face of British aggression has been rock solid
                        Last edited by paul g; 16 October 2019, 20:32.

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                        • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                          They aren’t going to cause we’re able to afford them

                          Naturally I’ve read the treaties and it’s evident that for the past three years European solidarity with this country in the face of British aggression has been rock solid
                          I wouldn’t describe it as British aggression - aggression from some quarters, yes. They are putting what they see as their own interests first. So is Ireland and the EU (quite correctly). Some British politicians have crossed a line, but it’s been individuals rather than government policy, I would say.
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                          • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                            They aren’t going to cause we’re able to afford them

                            Naturally I’ve read the treaties and it’s evident that for the past three years European protection of the single market in the face of the British government carrying out the democratic wish of its people has been rock solid
                            Fixed that for you.
                            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                            • Originally posted by spider View Post
                              Fixed that for you.
                              I’d argue that they have been guessing the will of the people, as no bugger has been able to work out for definite what it actually was!
                              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                                I’d argue that they have been guessing the will of the people, as no bugger has been able to work out for definite what it actually was!
                                True
                                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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