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  • Boreas
    replied
    Originally posted by Medsailor View Post
    Errrm... actually we have one already (10 odd years now) and no plans to get another! Thankfully your draft figures are a wee bit off otherwise I would have been hard aground on various occasions. Full load draft is actually around 2.2 metres.
    I think the incorrect draught figure comes from a misunderstanding of the dimensions given on http://www.afm.gov.mt/p61 which then made its way to the Wikipedia article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diciot..._patrol_vessel. You might want to update the Wikipedia article or, if you have a source I can cite, I'll do it.

    Off topic I suppose but do you know if the AFM have any idea what they might want as the new patrol vessel they are hoping to buy with EU funds? Maybe Ireland and Malta could buy 3 CPV types (2+1) and get a discount? The Damen 5509/P580 class might serve both countries needs.

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  • Medsailor
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
    What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
    Pug Ugly though.


    However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
    53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
    Errrm... actually we have one already (10 odd years now) and no plans to get another! Thankfully your draft figures are a wee bit off otherwise I would have been hard aground on various occasions. Full load draft is actually around 2.2 metres.

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  • Steamy Window
    replied
    Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
    Think to the future morpheus - Cloud - Convergence - Innovation - Synergy etc etc
    Is someone playing Buzzword Bingo?

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by morpheus View Post
    capability to operate drones
    Looking at what is available in OPV type vessels , out of eight types in operation, we are list as operating 3 types eg. Emer class, Roisin class, and Eithne Class, to that you can add Beckett class. We would seem to be the experts. Our difficulty is how to replace two CPV's gifted to us by Maggie Thatcher. Anything selectable is in embryonic development. Any built are restricted in range and endurance. The Danish P570 is a deep vessel at 4.9 meter draft. They are built to an Ice strengthened spec. and may come out lighter if to normal hull strength. My own choice in new design is the Fassmer 80 or the Damen 1400 with flight deck for drones only or a friendly land on in calm weather. The four engines in the later gives economy running on two.

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  • The real Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by morpheus View Post
    capability to be operated by drones
    Think to the future morpheus - Cloud - Convergence - Innovation - Synergy etc etc

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  • morpheus
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    I would suggest these as requirement for any new CPV:
    Draft <= 3 metres (Peacocks 2.7 m)
    Max Speed >= 25 kts (Peacocks 25-30 kts)
    Cruise Speed 15-17 kts (OPV RFP 16 kts / Peacocks 17 kts)
    Loiter Speed 0-8 kts (same as OPV RFP)
    Range 2500-3000 nm (OPV RFP 6000 nm / Peacocks 2500 nm)
    Endurance 21 days (same as Peacocks)
    Min 2 shafts (redundancy)
    Diesel / Diesel Electric / DE Hybrid (same as OPV RFP)
    Stowage of 1-2 TEUs (diving support etc)
    2 x RHIBs on davitts (commonality)

    Weapons - 76mm / 20mm main armament (commonality)
    capability to operate drones

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    I would suggest these as requirement for any new CPV:
    Draft <= 3 metres (Peacocks 2.7 m)
    Max Speed >= 25 kts (Peacocks 25-30 kts)
    Cruise Speed 15-17 kts (OPV RFP 16 kts / Peacocks 17 kts)
    Loiter Speed 0-8 kts (same as OPV RFP)
    Range 2500-3000 nm (OPV RFP 6000 nm / Peacocks 2500 nm)
    Endurance 21 days (same as Peacocks)
    Min 2 shafts (redundancy)
    Diesel / Diesel Electric / DE Hybrid (same as OPV RFP)
    Stowage of 1-2 TEUs (diving support etc)
    2 x RHIBs on davitts (commonality)

    Weapons - 76mm / 20mm main armament (commonality)

    Leave a comment:


  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by ibenji View Post
    Just think that a second location maybe of some use. The route for the N28 is on the existing alignment from the south ring road to Shannon park roundabout which is going to make the traffic situation even worse than normal which in itself is really bad. The port of foynes is about to undergo huge expansion to its current docking facilities.
    Not really. They have a masterplan for expansion, up to 2041. Read this. http://www.sfpc.ie/download/SFPC%20M...AN%20Final.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • morpheus
    replied
    we should just get 2 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers to patrol the atlantic and scare off the bears... would prob need a little bit of work done to haulbowline though and to quadruple the size of the navy!

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  • ibenji
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    So you would prefer to move to Foynes while they build a new N28? (New road, not widening current route)
    Just think that a second location maybe of some use. The route for the N28 is on the existing alignment from the south ring road to Shannon park roundabout which is going to make the traffic situation even worse than normal which in itself is really bad. The port of foynes is about to undergo huge expansion to its current docking facilities.

    Leave a comment:


  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by ibenji View Post
    Limerick county council is in the process of providing a motorway link from the m20 / m21 to foynes port due to the fact that it is one of three eu designated Euroports in the country. This road will be similar to the pending commencement of the n28 cork to ringaskiddy port due to start early in 2016. This n28 upgrade will result in 3 years of commuter misery for those of us working on haul bowline island. A second base maybe of some short term use
    So you would prefer to move to Foynes while they build a new N28? (New road, not widening current route)

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  • spider
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
    What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
    Pug Ugly though.


    However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
    53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
    Ironically a basic Flyvefisken (replaced in many roles by Rasmussen) would probably have fulfilled the role nicely...

    Leave a comment:


  • ibenji
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    Have you driven to Foynes from Dublin lately? Its a backwater. Haulbowline is on a National route, soon to be linked by motorway to the N8 Cork-Dublin road. WHat would be the advantage? Why lease when we already own a large property that could be developed further? If Foynes was suitable is it not surprising that the British Imperial Navy never considered it worthwhile?

    Do you just not like Cork?
    Limerick county council is in the process of providing a motorway link from the m20 / m21 to foynes port due to the fact that it is one of three eu designated Euroports in the country. This road will be similar to the pending commencement of the n28 cork to ringaskiddy port due to start early in 2016. This n28 upgrade will result in 3 years of commuter misery for those of us working on haul bowline island. A second base maybe of some short term use

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
    What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
    Pug Ugly though.


    However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
    53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
    Wonder how much it would be without the ice strengthening (we could get 1.5 OPVs for that price (but probably more capable))?

    The draft of the Italian ship is deeper than an existing NS vessel!

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If they are still operable, we should continue using them until their due date for decommissioning. If they are to be replaced I would recommend ships capable of operating independently. Don't go less than 1000 tonnes on a draft of 3.75/4.0 meters. Don't hang up on speed-maybe 20knots with a range around 4500nm. They need range to visit our European neighbors and even further afield. Forget the Shannon estuary,in adverse weather it is a difficult climb out, especially over the bar. They would in effect be no smaller than Aisling but better suited to modern defence systems.
    I'm not suggesting going and replacing them now. They are due to be retired in 2023, allow 5 years for tender & build and it will sneak up very quickly.

    Even more so considering that Eithne is due to retire in 2019. The NS should be looking at that now and thinking about the plan.

    For example:
    Is Eithne to be replaced? With an OPV? Or an EPV?
    If an EPV, make sure that there is an option so the 2 CPVs could be replaced by a single additional EPV
    If an OPV, the new contract include options for up to a further 2 (so the CPVs could be replaced either one-for-one or a single OPV

    If you are looking at up to 4 metre draft there is a fair few smaller ports you won't get into and your limiting where you can go (eg using terrain to mask your presence while awaiting a drug runner). Speed is important (if you want to get out of the weather, catch a vessel trying to get away or respond to a SAR incident) but I would say min 20 kts (but the higher the better).

    Leave a comment:

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