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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

    Well found. Quite compact ship. The bunk belts indicate a level of wave leaping. Unusual to find glass portholes on modern naval vessels.. CMS, with wooden hull ,at 150 ft was around 440 Tons. The Lakes are around 177 ft with a stated tonnage of 340 tonnes. I wonder are they of light construction materials.
    Bunks belts are standard on all RNZN vessels. The portholes are from GlassTech and met NZS5238 standard and Marine Authority Rule 25 for vessels greater than 30m and were a specific feature and especially toughened for the job. The Lake Class have a steel hull but the upper superstructure but uses aluminium and stainless steel fabricated via Friction Stir Welding techniques. They were all built at the WECO yard by Tenix now BAE in Whangarei, NZ. The two vessels on offer have operated for just 5500 hours and have been kept in near operational state, though un used for a number of years. They are to be sold as the RFI for the SOPV has been released for a vessel much larger that current OPV's.

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    • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

      Bunks belts are standard on all RNZN vessels. The portholes are from GlassTech and met NZS5238 standard and Marine Authority Rule 25 for vessels greater than 30m and were a specific feature and especially toughened for the job. The Lake Class have a steel hull but the upper superstructure but uses aluminium and stainless steel fabricated via Friction Stir Welding techniques. They were all built at the WECO yard by Tenix now BAE in Whangarei, NZ. The two vessels on offer have operated for just 5500 hours and have been kept in near operational state, though un used for a number of years. They are to be sold as the RFI for the SOPV has been released for a vessel much larger that current OPV's.
      Off Topic: I see the SOPV are to be Ice rated. Could the New Canadian AOPV sounds like something NZ has in mind, going purely on the budget mentioned in some reports? Same design house as the Protector OPVs.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

        Bunks belts are standard on all RNZN vessels. The portholes are from GlassTech and met NZS5238 standard and Marine Authority Rule 25 for vessels greater than 30m and were a specific feature and especially toughened for the job. The Lake Class have a steel hull but the upper superstructure but uses aluminium and stainless steel fabricated via Friction Stir Welding techniques. They were all built at the WECO yard by Tenix now BAE in Whangarei, NZ. The two vessels on offer have operated for just 5500 hours and have been kept in near operational state, though un used for a number of years. They are to be sold as the RFI for the SOPV has been released for a vessel much larger that current OPV's.
        Interesting, I presume deadlight closure of port glasses is controlled by Damage Control State. Nothing wrong with Aluminium upperworks except for meeting reasonable fire defence insulation levels and supporting heavy structures such as radar masts. The linear distance for 3500miles at 15kts is 91/2 days, can fuel be burnt out to achieve that or is there a fuel retention level to cope with stability and to preclude back filling with seawater. Lastly I was wondering about bow thruster and actual blade revolutions after the gear boxes? What was civilianisation of RNDF.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          The linear distance for 3500miles at 15kts is 91/2 days, can fuel be burnt out to achieve that or is there a fuel retention level to cope with stability and to preclude back filling with seawater. Lastly I was wondering about bow thruster and actual blade revolutions after the gear boxes? What was civilianisation of RNDF.
          3500nm however the standard operational endurance is 7 days. Never bothered to ask further re fuel retention for stability.
          The Lakes have two Lips 4D550 controllable pitch propellers and Deep Sea Seals sterntube seals but no bow thruster.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

            Off Topic: I see the SOPV are to be Ice rated. Could the New Canadian AOPV sounds like something NZ has in mind, going purely on the budget mentioned in some reports? Same design house as the Protector OPVs.
            That AOPS design the VARD 7-100ICE was the assumed platform of choice as it is indeed a larger cousin of the 85m Protectors and your OPV's. However, the RNZN has now released an RFI, which seemingly is asking for a much bigger vessel. I have heard a vessel over 12000 tonnes may even be likely. Essentially they are looking for a Polar Class 5 multirole vessel of up to 115m that can achieve a 12000nm / 60 day endurance with 100 embarked (nominally 60 x crew; 30 x science / other mission staff; 10 x helicopter flight crew). Accommodation arranged to provide 50 x single berth cabins and 25 x double berth cabins. The RFI calls for at least 6 unstacked 20 ft containers, capable of deploying a 12m 7 tonne landing craft, two 11m RHIB's with provision for two more if required, Norsafe JYN-100 Mk1 lifeboats, plus hangar and flight deck for an embarked NH90/MH-60R as well as an RPAS of up to Boeing Integrator RQ-21 in size and the ability to deploy AUV / ROV’s. It will have to have the performance ability to tow and recover vessels of up 26000 tonnes (The ice capable Aotearoa AOR and the USCG Polar Security Cutter are around that size) as well and some summer icebreaking ability. It will also have both a hydrographic and sea floor mapping multibeam echosounder as well as a deck mounted articulated crane and other LARS systems. Budget EUR355m. It will still only have a 25mm gun as that is the allowable limit in the Ross Sea in which it is designed to operate.

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            • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
              3500nm however the standard operational endurance is 7 days. Never bothered to ask further re fuel retention for stability.
              The Lakes have two Lips 4D550 controllable pitch propellers and Deep Sea Seals sterntube seals but no bow thruster.
              Lack of thruster could be a problem if the non Naval berths used for patrol in the Irish sea are constantly changed by the Port Authorities. They would have to be fuelled at weekly intervals or at least mid patrol depending on usage. Thanks for info.

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              • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

                That AOPS design the VARD 7-100ICE was the assumed platform of choice as it is indeed a larger cousin of the 85m Protectors and your OPV's. However, the RNZN has now released an RFI, which seemingly is asking for a much bigger vessel. I have heard a vessel over 12000 tonnes may even be likely. Essentially they are looking for a Polar Class 5 multirole vessel of up to 115m that can achieve a 12000nm / 60 day endurance with 100 embarked (nominally 60 x crew; 30 x science / other mission staff; 10 x helicopter flight crew). Accommodation arranged to provide 50 x single berth cabins and 25 x double berth cabins. The RFI calls for at least 6 unstacked 20 ft containers, capable of deploying a 12m 7 tonne landing craft, two 11m RHIB's with provision for two more if required, Norsafe JYN-100 Mk1 lifeboats, plus hangar and flight deck for an embarked NH90/MH-60R as well as an RPAS of up to Boeing Integrator RQ-21 in size and the ability to deploy AUV / ROV’s. It will have to have the performance ability to tow and recover vessels of up 26000 tonnes (The ice capable Aotearoa AOR and the USCG Polar Security Cutter are around that size) as well and some summer icebreaking ability. It will also have both a hydrographic and sea floor mapping multibeam echosounder as well as a deck mounted articulated crane and other LARS systems. Budget EUR355m. It will still only have a 25mm gun as that is the allowable limit in the Ross Sea in which it is designed to operate.
                It sounds not far off the RFI for our proposed MRV except our F.Dk requirements doesn't include an embarked or assigned Helicopter. Boat handling, AUV, ROV, Landing Craft, towage, air direction, hydrographic tasks all have implications for Crewing and associated Type and maintenance training coupled with possible HADR Medical and evacuation tasks requiring additional boats and staff.

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                  It sounds not far off the RFI for our proposed MRV except our F.Dk requirements doesn't include an embarked or assigned Helicopter. Boat handling, AUV, ROV, Landing Craft, towage, air direction, hydrographic tasks all have implications for Crewing and associated Type and maintenance training coupled with possible HADR Medical and evacuation tasks requiring additional boats and staff.
                  And Ice capability

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                  • Anzac any details on the IPV designs anywhere

                    am I correct in saying max is 2 berths per cabin?

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Anzac any details on the IPV designs anywhere

                      am I correct in saying max is 2 berths per cabin?
                      There used to be cutaways somewhere on the net years ago put out by the RNZN PR people but I think they have become long gone. The crew are mixed berth wise. The day/night cabin for the CO obviously with en-suite and toilet. 2 berths cabins for the Fish/Customs officers and senior NCO's and Jnr Officers. 3 berth cabins for the rest. Wardroom and combined mess/recreation areas adjacent as with en-suite shower/toilets. There is also accommodation for 12 additional trainees in 3 four person cabins with ensuite facilities as well.

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                      • Originally posted by Anzac View Post

                        There used to be cutaways somewhere on the net years ago put out by the RNZN PR people but I think they have become long gone. The crew are mixed berth wise. The day/night cabin for the CO obviously with en-suite and toilet. 2 berths cabins for the Fish/Customs officers and senior NCO's and Jnr Officers. 3 berth cabins for the rest. Wardroom and combined mess/recreation areas adjacent as with en-suite shower/toilets. There is also accommodation for 12 additional trainees in 3 four person cabins with ensuite facilities as well.
                        Massive improvement over the Peacocks in that case

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                          Massive improvement over the Peacocks in that case
                          The opposite end of the scale in terms of crew comfort.
                          Proper order too.
                          En Suite... imagine it...
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • Be careful what you wish for! My merchant marine friend had his toilet back up during a bad storm. Woke up to his clothes floating in sewage across the bedroom floor.

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                              Lack of thruster could be a problem if the non Naval berths used for patrol in the Irish sea are constantly changed by the Port Authorities. They would have to be fuelled at weekly intervals or at least mid patrol depending on usage. Thanks for info.
                              My own personal assessment is that these vessels will not be "handy" enough with a 7day endurance, no thruster, light construction, lively at sea, constricted afterdeck , Low freeboard aft. We mustn't think the Irish Sea is a mill pond, other than winds from a western direction all other gales can be troublesome especially NE'ly and SE'ly , with pacy Spring Tides at a few knots.

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                              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                                My own personal assessment is that these vessels will not be "handy" enough with a 7day endurance, no thruster, light construction, lively at sea, constricted afterdeck , Low freeboard aft. We mustn't think the Irish Sea is a mill pond, other than winds from a western direction all other gales can be troublesome especially NE'ly and SE'ly , with pacy Spring Tides at a few knots.
                                My view is that these two vessels should not even be sold and that all four Lake class should be kept within the RNZN fleet, that we will need them over the next decade as the PRC fishing fleets start moving down into the EEZ's of our South Pacific neighbours. They are well regarded in the RNZN and will be missed even if their endurance is just 7 days - but they are inshore vessels (Out to 24nm) and were designed for such customs / fisheries work in sea state 5 quite happily.

                                One thing I suspect will happen is that the DoD will see in these vessel that can do most of what they are after and realise that the "perfect" vessel in the CPV role will be unattractive due to cost. The DoD are being offered what I understand at a heavily discounted price is two lightly used modern small naval vessels. With the complete reluctance by the Irish Government to fund defence to even worse levels than the current NZ government, I could see the whole CPV requirement quickly disappear like my lot are trying to do in getting rid of these. Strangely if you don't buy them I would be happy - but if you do buy them Í would also be equally happy and that Ireland would be the only country I'd be happy to see them go too.

                                Can they do the job - patrol and provide an enforcement presence in the Irish sea - sure and do it well? Likewise they have been operating out of Fiji for us seasonally and equally doing a good job - I fear we will regret not having those two lake Class around in a few short years. Bitter sweet really.


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