Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CPV Replacement

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
    A bit overkill for fisheries inspections... which is the only thing SecGens of various depts with maritime briefs and the government want the Naval Service to do.
    If you reduce the Naval Service just to Fishery Protection then we no longer need any weapon larger than a 50cal, and even that would be overkill. AFAIK the three Scottish Marine Protection Vessels are all unarmed, so if that is the role for the NS, why do we need big guns?

    The CoDF showed that the current DF are not capable of providing for the defence of the nation as their capability is below what is needed. In terms of sea-power a couple of Independence class from Singapore would make a great capability increase for the NS and the flexibility of their design allows a wide range of tasking both military and civil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

      If you reduce the Naval Service just to Fishery Protection then we no longer need any weapon larger than a 50cal, and even that would be overkill. AFAIK the three Scottish Marine Protection Vessels are all unarmed, so if that is the role for the NS, why do we need big guns?

      The CoDF showed that the current DF are not capable of providing for the defence of the nation as their capability is below what is needed. In terms of sea-power a couple of Independence class from Singapore would make a great capability increase for the NS and the flexibility of their design allows a wide range of tasking both military and civil.
      Would you believe the exact discussion was being had during the P60 design phase. Why put a big 76mm cannon on a ship that will spend the majority of its time doing fishery patrols?
      Look at the RN River class. Nothing bigger than a 30mm there, same goes for the NZ OPVs, that carry out a similar role. And the river class has escorted Russian warships through the English Channel.
      The scottish vessels do their own thing, and are civilian manned, same as the civvy ships doing fishery protection in the UK on behalf of DEFRA now the RN no longer does the role. But until such time as the SFPA decides it no longer needs the NS to do its job, then lightly armed patrol vessels it is.
      This is why you need a mix of lightly armed patrol vessels, and properly armed dedicated military vessels, such as MCMVs, or Multi-Role Frigates.

      NZ almost has the mix right. 2 proper frigates and an Ice Class AOR for proper naval work, the MRV which sits in between, but will be replaced in time with an LPD, and your Dive Support, OPV and IPV mix for the more routine domestic tasks.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • The Naval Service will never be allowed do anything more than fisheries protection based on the current government policy. They are being used as cheap labor similar to DAA security support.

        If the SFPA took over at-sea inspections, then they would have to pay for Ship Charter and civilian public sector allowances for at-sea.

        €20 after tax (Navy) vs €137 tax free (SFPA) / €280 before Tax (Marine Institute) per 24hr at sea.

        Until that is addressed, the Naval Service fleet will do fisheries inspections 99.9% of their time at sea.

        Even the MRV was being looked upon by state agencies to do Fisheries Inspections in Irish waters.

        Comment


        • Biggest obstacle - DoD

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Biggest obstacle - DoD
            Certain aspects of it. Not all wearing civvies. Some wear green uniforms. Recent FOIs have revealed much about what happens in Newbridge. Or used to happen at least.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
              The Naval Service will never be allowed do anything more than fisheries protection based on the current government policy. They are being used as cheap labor similar to DAA security support.

              If the SFPA took over at-sea inspections, then they would have to pay for Ship Charter and civilian public sector allowances for at-sea.

              €20 after tax (Navy) vs €137 tax free (SFPA) / €280 before Tax (Marine Institute) per 24hr at sea.

              Until that is addressed, the Naval Service fleet will do fisheries inspections 99.9% of their time at sea.

              Even the MRV was being looked upon by state agencies to do Fisheries Inspections in Irish waters.
              And there is already two elephants in the room, one will be ignored the CoDF recommendations but the other is the continued decline in the number of people serving in the NS. The latter will continue as the government will not do anything meaningful. This has been going on for decades and the image of the NS suffers badly as a potential employer. Fishers Protection Force does not quiet have the same draw as Navy (or in our case Naval Service). People vote with their feet and the numbers of opportunities outside the NS is only going to grow. So a day will come when SFPA will have no other way out of the mess but to tender out FP to the civilian market.

              Although it is quiet interesting that one state agency is keeping the DF under "contract" as they are so much cheaper while another will not let the DF anywhere near their tender as they would be too expensive! (NS cheap vs AC expensive)

              Coming back to my original topic, we will always have a relatively small fleet, so we need vessels that can swing role easily. An Independence class can swing from high end military roles to doing civil roles such as fishery protection, pollution control etc. A vessels which is slowly dedicated to low end civil roles cannot, it can only do those lower level roles. In the future our dependence on the sea will increase, communications lines, off-shore power, gas and electrical undersea connectors. All that should mean an expanded set of requirements on the next generation of NS vessels. Even the incident today of undetected low flying aircraft could be somewhat tackled. A full air picture cand be better achieved when information from ship based 3d radars are feed into a reporting system

              Comment


              • “Contract” as in DoD covering the cost of providing the service the other agencies fail to

                Comment


                • Article in the latest "Navy Today" about the irish team in NZ supervising the handover of the IPVs.
                  Royal New Zealand Navy | Navy Today - Issue 268, August 2022 by New Zealand Defence Force - Issuu
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • Here is as good a place as any

                    RCN divers on a course in Haulbowline

                    https://twitter.com/naval_service/st...7r7qnFKychp1lw

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X