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  • Royal Navy Type 31

    Just came across this article about the Type 31. On reading it I was surprised to read :

    "One school of thought is that the Type 31s could be on the slipway sooner rather than later. For budget and other reasons, building the Type 31s is not going to be just tacked on the end of the Type 26 program, some of which could come very early in the next decade, said industry executives who asked not to be named.

    A joint MoD/industry team is already conducting early work on the Type 31 program, including looking at potential designs to fulfill the likely requirement as well as possible production schedules. One option could be a cut-down version of the 7,200-ton Type 26.

    Other British designs being considered could include modified versions of the Khareef corvette already built by BAE for Oman and an offshore patrol vessel built for the Irish Navy by the Babcock International-owned Appledore shipyard in southwest England"

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...hips/81440620/

  • #2
    In terms of when it might be built, I think one of the factors is the "GP" 23's are the closer to end of life than the ASW ones, so perhaps the order might come in sooner (but I doubt it given the 26 issues). If you mean adding in our 60's I think the writer just went and looked at what was being built in UK yards and added that in. There's no way a 31 design would be based off the P60 design.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
      ...There's no way a 31 design would be based off the P60 design.
      thats certainly my understanding - everything i've read and heard says T31 is going to be a 5000 tonne Frigate with hanger and Merlin sized flight deck, CAMM VLS, the replacement TLAM VLS, Type 997 radar, 5 inch Gun and Phalanx.

      from the people i've spoken to, both PM and SoS Def have said 'it will be a proper fighting warship'.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ropebag View Post
        thats certainly my understanding - everything i've read and heard says T31 is going to be a 5000 tonne Frigate with hanger and Merlin sized flight deck, CAMM VLS, the replacement TLAM VLS, Type 997 radar, 5 inch Gun and Phalanx.

        from the people i've spoken to, both PM and SoS Def have said 'it will be a proper fighting warship'.
        That's why I was surprised by the mention of the Irish ships.....But if the RN does decide to design Fighty P60s (for whaterer reason) it would be interesting to see what they come up with.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Galloglass View Post
          That's why I was surprised by the mention of the Irish ships.....But if the RN does decide to design Fighty P60s (for whaterer reason) it would be interesting to see what they come up with.
          As Ropebag suggested, the proposed 31 is going to be a much heavier warship than anything the 60 design could be stretched to be.

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          • #6
            10 extra meters, a heli deck and hanger and different mast would surely add a couple of KG
            What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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            • #7
              The BMT design(Venator 110) mentioned in the article is visually similar to the p60'S.

              https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/coul...light-frigate/

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/610225...al%20Brief.pdf

                How about one (or two) of these as P70 :P
                What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Choices By the Experts

                  Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                  http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/610225...al%20Brief.pdf

                  How about one (or two) of these as P70 :P
                  We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
                  Last edited by ancientmariner; 31 March 2016, 10:22.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
                    Something like Ocean is overkill for what we need, although it would be an excellent capability to have (with regard to all it can carry, self defence capabilities etc). However, with regard to damage control remember it is built to commercial standards (not naval).

                    It wouldn't necessarily need to be loaded in Haulbowline, in fact due to constraints (eg bridges, vehicle turning space etc) it may be better to load in Ringaskiddy or Dublin.

                    As you say you would still need a facility to dock in Haulbowline for the general maintenance, provisioning, etc (it would make zero sense to have a new base just for 1 vessel).

                    The crew is 285 but let's say we could get that down to 200 with a bit of lean manning. We could make the NS establishment 10,000 if you wanted to but if the strength is still only 800......

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                    • #11
                      I would suggest Dublin as a permanent base with appropriate visits to Cork. The vessel is available from about 2018. Our establishment is puny and needs to almost double to 1600. We could do it and it would cover all Military type movements especially of hardware. We need a professional evaluation of how useful a Navy we need and emulate some of our European mainland neighbours. Recruiting could be by a reversion to an open door policy at all posts with an appropriate medical.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        I would suggest Dublin as a permanent base with appropriate visits to Cork. The vessel is available from about 2018. Our establishment is puny and needs to almost double to 1600. We could do it and it would cover all Military type movements especially of hardware. We need a professional evaluation of how useful a Navy we need and emulate some of our European mainland neighbours. Recruiting could be by a reversion to an open door policy at all posts with an appropriate medical.
                        By 2018, Ocean would have nearly 25 years usage, and the RN has used her fairly heavily, is she going to get anymore heavy maintenance since her 2014 work and her decommissioning? Given that the RN has some bit of a history of selling decommissioned hulls that have "problems" (Bay, U class), what condition will she be in by 2018?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                          By 2018, Ocean would have nearly 25 years usage, and the RN has used her fairly heavily, is she going to get anymore heavy maintenance since her 2014 work and her decommissioning? Given that the RN has some bit of a history of selling decommissioned hulls that have "problems" (Bay, U class), what condition will she be in by 2018?
                          From what I've seen, she's been used very heavily, and very hard - she will however still be in decent nick: she'd, imv, be useful for perhaps 5 years of lightish operations without the need to spend much ( with much as relative to the costs of running a 20,000 ton ship...).

                          She would, for example, make a very good disaster relief/transport/avaition/ amphib training vessel for a set period of time - she'd be a tool to look at various types of operations to decide what was desirable and what was doable. What she's not is INS Vikrant#2, and if you kept her for 30 years she'd have spent most of her service in the body shop and cost a fortune...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
                            is this a piss take.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pardon my naval ignorance, but Ocean is MASSIVE, 203.4 m and 21,500 t of massive. Putting it in perspective, that is over twice as long and 11 time heavier than the P60 class. Sure, the capability it would add would be nice, but our lack of a fleet air arm, and experience in operating something on this scale make it a totally unrealistic and impractical prospect in my humble opinion.

                              Being realistic, something in the frigate category in terms of size and weight would be much more suitable. Now I will patiently await a mod to split the last few posts off and put them into a thread regarding the EPV for the NS.
                              What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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