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9 Ship Navy Included in Programme for Government!

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  • 9 Ship Navy Included in Programme for Government!

    Well folks to all the naysayers that said a 9 ship navy was a pipe dream and that the white paper would not be fully implemented ... Up yours :-)

    Page 143 of the Programme for Govt sates

    "there has been a historic under investment in Defence forces Infrastructure and we will provide a significant boost in capital funding to equip our Army naval Service and Air Corps

    Specifically we will

    imprelement the white paper on defence
    provide for moving from and 8 to a 9 ship naval flotilla, investment in APC's Logistic vehicales modernization of barracks... replacement of aircraft as necessary"

    etc etc

    Encouraging stuff to be honest.

    I dont have a download at the moment but you can access the full document on the Irish Times website

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...each-1.2637567

  • #2
    Well feck, I didn't think FG would stick to this, since FF have only agreed to a 3 year budget support could we see movement on this sooner rather than later?

    Comment


    • #3
      https://www.scribd.com/doc/311631772...endents Pg 143

      pg 143

      enjoy!
      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

      Comment


      • #4
        To be honest I have a sneaking suspicion that Tender docs have already been prepared and are sitting in the DOD ready to be issued once the new Govt beds in. I reckon the 9 ship flotilla will be as follows.

        2 Roisin Class
        3 Beckett Class
        2 Minesweepers (CPV's)
        2 EPV - Eithne replacements,

        Tenders for the Minesweepers probably to be issued by end of 2016 (At a guess) and possibly EPV's sometime next year?

        As regards the Army: Additional APCS' have been mentioned in a few documents recently (WP) Programme for Govt manifestos etc. I'm wondering wil this mean additions to the current fleet (more Mowags) or is this diplomatic language for replacing the Scorpions. Time wil obviously tell but id be interested in others speculative opinions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Banner View Post
          To be honest I have a sneaking suspicion that Tender docs have already been prepared and are sitting in the DOD ready to be issued once the new Govt beds in. I reckon the 9 ship flotilla will be as follows.

          2 Roisin Class
          3 Beckett Class
          2 Minesweepers (CPV's)
          2 EPV - Eithne replacements,

          Tenders for the Minesweepers probably to be issued by end of 2016 (At a guess) and possibly EPV's sometime next year?

          As regards the Army: Additional APCS' have been mentioned in a few documents recently (WP) Programme for Govt manifestos etc. I'm wondering wil this mean additions to the current fleet (more Mowags) or is this diplomatic language for replacing the Scorpions. Time wil obviously tell but id be interested in others speculative opinions.
          Mid life upgrade of Mowags similar to the conversion of existing FVT Turret cars to CRV variants with RWS I would guess. If you compare the entire Defence Forces Inventory of APCs and Logisitics vehicles, it comes up about 800 short when compared to a single NATO brigade. That includes being 200+ short on APCs.

          By modernization of barracks, in reality this should really mean consolidation, but I don't see local politicians giving up on their vote base. Oh well back to the parish pump we go!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Banner View Post
            To be honest I have a sneaking suspicion that Tender docs have already been prepared and are sitting in the DOD ready to be issued once the new Govt beds in. I reckon the 9 ship flotilla will be as follows.

            2 Roisin Class
            3 Beckett Class
            2 Minesweepers (CPV's)
            2 EPV - Eithne replacements,

            Tenders for the Minesweepers probably to be issued by end of 2016 (At a guess) and possibly EPV's sometime next year?
            Isn't Eithne due for replacement before the Peacocks? I'd rather see the 2 EPV's first even if the costs are higher.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Banner View Post
              Tenders for the Minesweepers probably to be issued by end of 2016 (At a guess) and possibly EPV's sometime next year?
              Factor in that the tender for the Cessna replacements is to be published around the end of 2016

              As regards the Army: Additional APCS' have been mentioned in a few documents recently (WP) Programme for Govt manifestos etc. I'm wondering wil this mean additions to the current fleet (more Mowags) or is this diplomatic language for replacing the Scorpions. Time wil obviously tell but id be interested in others speculative opinions.
              It is life extension or replacement of the MOWAGs (cost effectiveness to be studied).

              Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
              it comes up about 800 short when compared to a single NATO brigade. That includes being 200+ short on APCs.
              except we have 2 light Inf Bdes.

              but I don't see local politicians giving up on their vote base. Oh well back to the parish pump we go!
              +1 can't see cooperation on that (having said the FF closed more barracks than FG/Labour)

              Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              Isn't Eithne due for replacement before the Peacocks? I'd rather see the 2 EPV's first even if the costs are higher.
              Eithne 2018 and Peacocks 2023

              I assume it will be Peacocks replaced first though. There replacement will be probably about the same as 1 OPV. A more capable vessel means more flexibility (ie seakeeping - spread the sea days more around the fleet) and then there is the issue of their accommodation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Factor in that the tender for the Cessna replacements is to be published around the end of 2016

                Eithne 2018 and Peacocks 2023

                I assume it will be Peacocks replaced first though. There replacement will be probably about the same as 1 OPV. A more capable vessel means more flexibility (ie seakeeping - spread the sea days more around the fleet) and then there is the issue of their accommodation.
                In terms of equipment purchase that would be a fairly high bill for Ireland.

                For the replacement of Peacock's if we are going for something "similar" with Mine Clearance capabilities what would be the likely price? I mean that's a whole new design surely? Also wouldn't there be some work done already for the EPV due to earlier studies, I mean the Peacock replacements are a blank sheet surely?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Depends on the size of EPV they go for, if they say a big grey ship to take a Coy Gp then I would say 2 EPVs are unlikely they wouldn't be utilised in that role enough and would be cost prohibitive.

                  I'd say another SB class OPV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    In terms of equipment purchase that would be a fairly high bill for Ireland.
                    Absolutely your talking a lot of money:
                    €4-6 m for the ISTAR aircraft
                    €100 m for 1 X EPV
                    Min €150m for APC replacement
                    €60m for 2 X CPV



                    For the replacement of Peacock's if we are going for something "similar" with Mine Clearance capabilities what would be the likely price? I mean that's a whole new design surely? Also wouldn't there be some work done already for the EPV due to earlier studies, I mean the Peacock replacements are a blank sheet surely?
                    Correct, IMHO there is nothing MOTS/COTS that meets the bill of either the CPVs or EPVs.



                    Bearing in mind when taking about a C-Mine / C-IED capable CPV we could be simply talking about a vessel capable of carrying 3-4 X TEU and:

                    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...MCM-AUV-Tender
                    Last edited by DeV; 6 May 2016, 14:39.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      except we have 2 light Inf Bdes.
                      The DF have 2 x random groupings of infantry units + support based off nothing more thoughtful than to put personnel numbers in constituencies and base it on a force structure harking back to the foundation of the state and a semi centralized training facility that thinks its a Brigade but really is not.

                      2 x actual capable Light Inf Brigades would mean approx 4500 soldiers per Infantry brigade at a 400/4100 split Officer/Enlisted and still 800+ logistics vehicles.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                        The DF have 2 x random groupings of infantry units + support based off nothing more thoughtful than to put personnel numbers in constituencies and base it on a force structure harking back to the foundation of the state and a semi centralized training facility that thinks its a Brigade but really is not.

                        2 x actual capable Light Inf Brigades would mean approx 4500 soldiers per Infantry brigade at a 400/4100 split Officer/Enlisted and still 800+ logistics vehicles.
                        I'm not disagreeing but they are "light infantry" and "all arms".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wouldn't such a discussion be better in the Army section?

                          Hopefully given how unstable this is going to be I hope we see a tender quickly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We don't need mine sweepers, as this gear can be modularised and stuck on the back of an OPV.

                            Eithne is good for another 5 years, from a commonality point of view a new SB would be ideal and I'm sure Appledore would jump at the chance to stay open for another while.

                            MInesweepers, EPVs, all on the wish list no doubt but practicality will prevail.

                            Huge problem for the NS is the haemorraging of bodies from the service. If the pay etc. doesn't get sorted, they won't have the bodies to put on the existing ships never mind new builds.
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                              We don't need mine sweepers, as this gear can be modularised and stuck on the back of an OPV.

                              Eithne is good for another 5 years, from a commonality point of view a new SB would be ideal and I'm sure Appledore would jump at the chance to stay open for another while.

                              MInesweepers, EPVs, all on the wish list no doubt but practicality will prevail.

                              Huge problem for the NS is the haemorraging of bodies from the service. If the pay etc. doesn't get sorted, they won't have the bodies to put on the existing ships never mind new builds.
                              Eithne good for another five years??!!........

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