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  • Nobody being vocal about their dislike of it is in the navy. Strange everyone in is happy with the design, and we should be, looks way better than the last.

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    • Anything was a step up from the ancient design the NS had. In terms of cut and features. But not this. No point in introducing a pattern that makes a branch of the DF a laughing stock with the rest of it and the Civvies. Again the Features and Material incorporated into the new uniform are very well thought out and should be introduced DF wide but the pattern is a joke.A DPM Pattern that blends with????

      Nothing.

      As for no negative comments coming from within the NS. Ever hear the story of the Emperors new clothes???? He thought he looked good too.
      Last edited by apod; 2 May 2021, 20:39.
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

      Comment


      • People were always gonna take the piss out of it regardless of the design, just the way it is, can't have anything nice and new without someone taking the mick.
        You thinking it's a bad design dosent make it so, so we clearly disagree. I think its the best looking navy uniform out there now, dont look like a dockyard worker or like someone who works in Tesco no more. It does blend in with the ship which I could say could be useful if you are on deck at the gpmg, but not gonna say that's the sole reason why it's good. Remember in recruits when we got the Dpms and there was a sense of pride with it, u actually looked like you were in the military, that changed when we got the gdrs, everyone hated it, I do think that is important . Now with this uniform it actually looks military. And it distinguishes between army and navy.

        Comment


        • I think any opinion on the uniform is going to be subjective. Personally, I would have rathered the same cut but in dark navy with no camo but that's completely my taste. I can see the viewpoint that the pattern makes it more military like and maybe that'll be useful for recruiting.

          I think a comparison with UCP and NWU 1 is unfair. They were both horror shows. This is a fantastic step up from what the NS had. I'm a reserve so I've not been issued yet but I'll be proud to wear when I get the opportunity.

          Comment


          • People were always gonna take the piss out of it regardless of the design, just the way it is, can't have anything nice and new without someone taking the mick.
            So people are mocking it just because of Begrudgery?? No.People are mocking the PATTERN.Because it is Fugly and serves no Useful purpose.Simple as


            You thinking it's a bad design dosent make it so, so we clearly disagree. I think its the best looking navy uniform out there now, dont look like a dockyard worker or like someone who works in Tesco no more.
            I say again.Its the pattern not the design that's the issue.The Design features are innovative as is the material and the NS should be commended for there forward looking approach.And no, the French have that title or possibly even the Royal Navy.Canadian Navy Uniform is smart too.No silly Camo patterns there.

            It does blend in with the ship which I could say could be useful if you are on deck at the gpmg, but not gonna say that's the sole reason why it's good. Remember in recruits when we got the Dpms and there was a sense of pride with it, u actually looked like you were in the military, that changed when we got the gdrs, everyone hated it, I do think that is important . Now with this uniform it actually looks military.
            So.It blends with the ship?The big, all grey floaty thing? Guess what blends with grey??

            Grey.


            You are right though looking the part is a morale issue.Morale is a force multiplier.And getting something new after many years of being left behind is cause for celebration.I reckon it will be short lived though judging by the amount of piss taking that has ensued.




            And it distinguishes between army and navy. [
            Ah.The crux of the matter and the REAL reason for it's introduction.
            Last edited by apod; 2 May 2021, 21:48.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • I should have said pattern, not design, thats what I meant in my reply.
              The only people ive seen commenting bad about it is a train driver, and a couple of anti-vaccine "patriots" who dont wear the flag on their shoulder every day for work. And yourself. So 4 people, who feel the need to voice their opinion on it, which is fine I suppose, but theres plenty of opinions which sway the other way, just decide not to voice it. Just the fact that you say it as though your opinion is so matter-of-fact, I felt the need to be a voice in the other direction. The french and canadian uniform looks like muck to me, "simple as".
              Why does it matter that it blends with the ship? Surely that would be useful, no? I think the camo is cool, you seem to hate it.
              "Ah.The crux of the matter and the REAL reason for it's introduction." - Is this a problem? I dont see it as a problem at all. Its even in the booklet we got while getting it issued to us.

              Comment


              • In 1961 when I joined the Navy working dress was an ad hoc arrangement made up mostly of old ARMY brown denim coats and pants with loose pinned brass buttons, much used by the children in the Construction Corps. Then came the advance to a working dress SHIRT BLUE, which was worn with the blue hairy trousers. Then came the addition of a trousers, to sort of match the shirt ,but totally unsuitable for cold winter mornings in the muster parade-augmented with wooly pully under the shirt and long johns with stern trap door. J.C. anything is better then a non-uniform outfit. I think the DPM unified cloth is the absolute answer to being in uniform and clearly answers two questions. The persons wearing it are in Defence Force Service and they are in the NAVY. Well done all round--splendid!!
                Last edited by ancientmariner; 3 May 2021, 09:22.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bilgerat View Post
                  I should have said pattern, not design, thats what I meant in my reply.
                  The only people ive seen commenting bad about it is a train driver, and a couple of anti-vaccine "patriots" who dont wear the flag on their shoulder every day for work. And yourself. So 4 people, who feel the need to voice their opinion on it, which is fine I suppose, but theres plenty of opinions which sway the other way, just decide not to voice it. Just the fact that you say it as though your opinion is so matter-of-fact, I felt the need to be a voice in the other direction. The french and canadian uniform looks like muck to me, "simple as".
                  Why does it matter that it blends with the ship? Surely that would be useful, no? I think the camo is cool, you seem to hate it.
                  "Ah.The crux of the matter and the REAL reason for it's introduction." - Is this a problem? I dont see it as a problem at all. Its even in the booklet we got while getting it issued to us.
                  I don't want to come across as patronising so I am genuinely treading carefully here.So please forgive me if this comes across that way.

                  I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume by the tenor of your posts that you are not long in the DF. If I got that wrong I apologise. I have been in Uniform for close to thirty years now and I have worn the old OG Working Dress (Which the recently retired NS uniform was based off) and Combats,the first Issue of DPMs and everything since. And at risk of ID'ing myself I know a fair bit about other Militaries Uniforms. I also know DF politics,spin and frankly, Bullshit.

                  This introduction of the NSV DPM Rig is a Trojan Horse. Spun by some elements in the NS as being introduced on Operational and safety grounds but PRIMARILY(when you dispense with the BS) because some people in the NS have an inferiority complex and hate looking like the Army. In short it's a vanity project driven by Inter service politics. And that is "Simple as". I can say that Matter of fact because that's what it is.I have been around long enough to recognise that and to call it for what it is. Sorry if that offends but there we have it.

                  As for Blending in.Again.You have missed my point. Plain Grey blends perfectly with the deck of the ship.Why the need for multiple colours?? No foliage on a ships deck from what I can see. Look at the USN and where they are going design wise for their kit. They got rid of the Blueberries and replaced them with a Camo pattern designed for Land warfare (NWU 3) as a stop gap, but they are moving to Plain Navy and plain Tan variants for use onboard. Perfectly smart and practical. I know some Navies are still using Naval "Camos" but lets be honest they look gank.

                  So. In short.I genuinely wish you "well wear" as they say. I am glad that the NS has got something that lifts morale and takes the sailors minds off the myriad of other issues facing the NS.If only for a moment even. Enjoy the Seaweed Camo.
                  "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                  Comment


                  • Why are you saying the Navy hate looking like the army when the previous uniform didn't look like the army? That comment doesn't make sense. The Naval Service were never going to change from a naval pattern uniform to an army pattern uniform, no more than the pilot of a PC9 was suddenly going to start wearing DPM raingear instead of his flight suit.
                    Surely your knowledge of uniform should also give you an appreciation for the NS wanting to maintain it's own unique identity, yet still identify as being part of the Irish DF?
                    Plain grey does not blend in with the deck of a ship. You are doing fieldcraft long enough to realise there are many shade and colours caused by features and structures on board ship the same as plain green didn't work in a grassy field, even though we all know grass is green, right?

                    Never mind what the USN do, their style of operations bear no similarity to what we do in Ireland.

                    The following are facts:
                    It is an operational uniform.
                    It is also workwear, designed from buttons to thread to be suitable for wearing on the unique operational environment aboard ship.
                    This is not "Spin".

                    You are a lone voice of dissent, and I respect that. But you'll find nobody working on Haulbowline agrees with you. Even the most cynical will say "shedloads better than the old stuff".
                    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                    German 2: Private? I am a general!
                    German 1: That is the bad news.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by apod View Post

                      I don't want to come across as patronising so I am genuinely treading carefully here.So please forgive me if this comes across that way.

                      I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume by the tenor of your posts that you are not long in the DF. If I got that wrong I apologise. I have been in Uniform for close to thirty years now and I have worn the old OG Working Dress (Which the recently retired NS uniform was based off) and Combats,the first Issue of DPMs and everything since. And at risk of ID'ing myself I know a fair bit about other Militaries Uniforms. I also know DF politics,spin and frankly, Bullshit.

                      This introduction of the NSV DPM Rig is a Trojan Horse. Spun by some elements in the NS as being introduced on Operational and safety grounds but PRIMARILY(when you dispense with the BS) because some people in the NS have an inferiority complex and hate looking like the Army. In short it's a vanity project driven by Inter service politics. And that is "Simple as". I can say that Matter of fact because that's what it is.I have been around long enough to recognise that and to call it for what it is. Sorry if that offends but there we have it.

                      As for Blending in.Again.You have missed my point. Plain Grey blends perfectly with the deck of the ship.Why the need for multiple colours?? No foliage on a ships deck from what I can see. Look at the USN and where they are going design wise for their kit. They got rid of the Blueberries and replaced them with a Camo pattern designed for Land warfare (NWU 3) as a stop gap, but they are moving to Plain Navy and plain Tan variants for use onboard. Perfectly smart and practical. I know some Navies are still using Naval "Camos" but lets be honest they look gank.

                      So. In short.I genuinely wish you "well wear" as they say. I am glad that the NS has got something that lifts morale and takes the sailors minds off the myriad of other issues facing the NS.If only for a moment even. Enjoy the Seaweed Camo.
                      Ive been in for a few years not as many as yourself, but the amount of time either us are in, or what you know about uniforms, makes no difference to the validity of either of our opinions.
                      Ignoring the "blending in with ship" argument, which I can see some merit with it being a DPM pattern, if we find ourselves off the coast of africa (hopefully) in the future.
                      Not even going to acknowledge "NS have an inferiority complex and hate looking like the Army", I think thats just ridiculous.
                      About it being a vanity project, I definitely think it has to do with vanity, and why is that a bad thing? I mentioned before how when we were in recruits that we all hated changing from DPM to GDR as it felt like we werent part of a military anymore, you even appreciated how that can affect morale. With this DPM navy pattern, its far better in that regard.
                      It is just personal opinion whether you like it or not, but you cant deny it definitely looks more military, which I do think is very important, especially for those wearing it.
                      I for one (clearly) like the DPM navy patterns of other navies, like the aussies, and am happy that we have our own now, that looks even better than theirs.

                      Comment


                      • Seriously GH. That's your argument?? You have drunk the NS Cool aid too it seems.

                        Where have I said the previous NS rig (GDR) was going to be replaced with an "Army" uniform.Or advocated for it. Nowhere. Why?? Because the NS was already wearing IP-DPM for certain land based tasks. This drove SOME,not ALL mind you, in the NS mad as they wanted their separate Identity at all costs.That is FACT. You can argue that's not the case till the ships come in (if they went out) but the dolphins in the ocean know that the truth.

                        As for the argument about Grey uniforms not blending with the superstructure of the ship because of "fifty shades". C'mon. Really?? It's too early for jokes. Why is IP-DPM multiple colours? Because their are Multiple colours in Nature. Of course a ship being Man made doesn't have the same multiples,especially Naval vessels which tend to be predominantly Grey with black here and there.But mostly Grey. So that argument holds no water. Pardon the pun.

                        Never mind the USN? One of the largest Navies in the World and along with the RN they pretty much set the standard to reach. Really?? I thought this uniform was being Driven by "International best Practice". I know that was said in a briefing note to the General staff. In fact the project team BS's the General staff as they gave examples of the USN "Blueberry" uniform and the Aussie NDPCU as two such examples without mentioning that the "blueberries"were being phased out. As for the USN style of operations. Deck hands are deck hands the world over.Do the USN do things THAT much differently at the deck level??

                        Yes.The new rig is an Operational uniform and for the last time I have no issue with that. The design and features are pretty nifty.So serious Kudos for that and I believe the NS has stolen a march on the rest of the DF with those.Those features I believe will carry over into the next generation of DF Field dress so that's good. I just believe the pattern is a massive own goal driven by inter service rivalry which opens the NS up for ridicule and I can't stand that.

                        Again.Well wear to those who like it.Sorry If I am the being the elephant in the room but I can express my opinion right??

                        PS: The Air corps wear IP-DPM with their flight suits as dictated by the operational task and as allowed under Admin Instruction A9.Plenty of Pics out there of them doing so alongside the pictures of the NS wearing DF DPM.
                        Last edited by apod; 3 May 2021, 10:30.
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment



                        • Ive been in for a few years not as many as yourself, but the amount of time either us are in, or what you know about uniforms, makes no difference to the validity of either of our opinions.
                          Ah yeah.It does.Experience speaks volumes. Not saying your opinion is invalid though I think you are trying to say mine is.

                          Ignoring the "blending in with ship" argument, which I can see some merit with it being a DPM pattern, if we find ourselves off the coast of africa (hopefully) in the future.
                          Oh FFS. THAT's the justification??OPS of the coast of Africa.Really?? Will the ship change colour and go all west african Jungle foliage like or East African Sand colour?? Really. I have serve in West Africa.Trust me. NS DPM would stick out like the dogs danglies in the Jungle. Exactly you are ignoring the Grey blends with grey argument as it blows the justification for a bespoke DPM pattern out of the water.
                          Not even going to acknowledge "NS have an inferiority complex and hate looking like the Army", I think thats just ridiculous.
                          No that's just Naive.Sorry.

                          About it being a vanity project, I definitely think it has to do with vanity, and why is that a bad thing?
                          Wasting Taxpayers money that's why. Justifying somethings existence based on BS(International best practice,Clearly not)

                          I mentioned before how when we were in recruits that we all hated changing from DPM to GDR as it felt like we werent part of a military anymore, you even appreciated how that can affect morale. With this DPM navy pattern, its far better in that regard.
                          It is just personal opinion whether you like it or not, but you cant deny it definitely looks more military, which I do think is very important, especially for those wearing it.
                          I for one (clearly) like the DPM navy patterns of other navies, like the aussies, and am happy that we have our own now, that looks even better than theirs.
                          I 100% agree with you.You have to look the part and that does affect Morale.I just think it could have been done better without the need for a pattern that blends with nothing if we are honest.

                          Can you honestly say that the sailors pictured in the article below look "Un-military" or unprofessional?? (Just one example BTW)

                          https://www.military.com/daily-news/...wear-test.html
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                          Comment


                          • "This professional uniform is easily recognisable as synonymous with the Defence Forces while maintaining our unique maritime identity." - From the booklet of the NSV DPM.
                            You're dead right about wanting seperate identity. Thats a good thing!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by apod View Post
                              Ah yeah.It does.Experience speaks volumes. Not saying your opinion is invalid though I think you are trying to say mine is.


                              Oh FFS. THAT's the justification??OPS of the coast of Africa.Really?? Will the ship change colour and go all west african Jungle foliage like or East African Sand colour?? Really. I have serve in West Africa.Trust me. NS DPM would stick out like the dogs danglies in the Jungle. Exactly you are ignoring the Grey blends with grey argument as it blows the justification for a bespoke DPM pattern out of the water.

                              No that's just Naive.Sorry.

                              Wasting Taxpayers money that's why. Justifying somethings existence based on BS(International best practice,Clearly not)


                              I 100% agree with you.You have to look the part and that does affect Morale.I just think it could have been done better without the need for a pattern that blends with nothing if we are honest.

                              Can you honestly say that the sailors pictured in the article below look "Un-military" or unprofessional?? (Just one example BTW)

                              https://www.military.com/daily-news/...wear-test.html
                              I never once said your opinion was invalid. I said it one opinion. With equal weight to mine, regardless of how old you are or how long youve been in.
                              Dont want to take the ship to a jungle, but the horn of Africa, maritime ops.. A man can dream right?

                              Yes, I think the single colour uniforms with baseball caps look bad, dont look military and wouldnt be hard to find someone not in the military who wears something similar. Your one on the left looks like a dockyard worker/customs worker, and the fella on the right looks like hed give me a tour of a safari.
                              Last edited by Bilgerat; 3 May 2021, 11:49.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by apod View Post
                                Ah yeah.It does.Experience speaks volumes. Not saying your opinion is invalid though I think you are trying to say mine is.

                                Oh FFS. THAT's the justification??OPS of the coast of Africa.Really?? Will the ship change colour and go all west african Jungle foliage like or East African Sand colour?? Really. I have serve in West Africa.Trust me. NS DPM would stick out like the dogs danglies in the Jungle. Exactly you are ignoring the Grey blends with grey argument as it blows the justification for a bespoke DPM pattern out of the water.

                                No that's just Naive.Sorry.


                                Wasting Taxpayers money that's why. Justifying somethings existence based on BS(International best practice,Clearly not)



                                I 100% agree with you.You have to look the part and that does affect Morale.I just think it could have been done better without the need for a pattern that blends with nothing if we are honest.

                                Can you honestly say that the sailors pictured in the article below look "Un-military" or unprofessional?? (Just one example BTW)

                                https://www.military.com/daily-news/...wear-test.html
                                There is a saying about being proud to wear THE uniform. Pride does infer a certain amount of vanity but that is fine as it is a feeder to diligence, flying the Flag, and not letting the Side down. No matter what Naval Duty you are on you should wear an obviously Naval Uniform and not be a soldier for the moment or day. It is NOT right that sailors in off base or ship duties find themselves in a non-issue uniform for military convenience. It leads over time to shame caused by assuming you are in the wrong place for sailors and you must Camo your identity. Talking about ships changing colour, HMS Tamar, has been deployed to the Far East with the first DAZZLE coated paint scheme in Black, White, and Grey since 1939-1945. I would finally hypostasize that ARMY uniform is NOT NAVAL uniform.

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