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  • #31
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Barracks yourself. If the Irish Navy issue was styled the same as the RN issue with covered button line and pants and shirt with matching blended colour then we probably wouldn't be having this proposal. Blue is a hard colour to survive laundry. Our contracts would never be for matching shirts and pants with shirt complete with Navy and National markings. The RN have been stumbling through various remakes with light shirts and darker pants. They have now gone for a single matched colour yet to be proved to survive constant laundry. What ever we do the working duty dress must be smart and survive the I WOULDN'T BE SEEN DEAD IN THIS even in B*****ks.
    Did you actually read my post above or are you just jumping to defend this stooooopid idea out of blind loyalty to the NS?? I clearly said that while this proposed DPM uniform is a massive waste of money and a vanity project the need still clearly exists for the NS working uniform to be massively updated. New material,flame resistant properties and Branding to distinguish our personnel from other agencies.That can all be achieved WITHOUT designing and paying for a new DPM pattern that isn't needed.
    And just to clarify all the recent NS uniform shirts have a Tri-colour and NS tab fitted as standard so yes.We do contract for those.
    I have read the literature on the IKON proposing this uniform and the various requirements.With regards the Technical specs it is impressive and a massive step up from what is on issue now.If they just wadied the stupid pattern and produced it in Navy or even plain grey(NS ships are grey are they not?) it could actually be something good.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by apod View Post
      Did you actually read my post above or are you just jumping to defend this stooooopid idea out of blind loyalty to the NS?? I clearly said that while this proposed DPM uniform is a massive waste of money and a vanity project the need still clearly exists for the NS working uniform to be massively updated. New material,flame resistant properties and Branding to distinguish our personnel from other agencies.That can all be achieved WITHOUT designing and paying for a new DPM pattern that isn't needed.
      And just to clarify all the recent NS uniform shirts have a Tri-colour and NS tab fitted as standard so yes.We do contract for those.
      I have read the literature on the IKON proposing this uniform and the various requirements.With regards the Technical specs it is impressive and a massive step up from what is on issue now.If they just wadied the stupid pattern and produced it in Navy or even plain grey(NS ships are grey are they not?) it could actually be something good.
      Of course I will defend the NS position. Remember most of what is got from the Master's table comes through a green sieve. As I said I do not like the large pattern disrupted coloration and would have no problem with proven naval dress from other European navies. They all seem to struggle with producing a sensible dress but the emerging consensus seems to be a form of DPM. The Brits will always be traditional. We were too-when I joined the working rig was ARMY Orangey/Brown jacket and pants with brass buttons, both the ratings and the navy disliked it. The main problem to be overcome is that a blue shirt and pants needs to have other elements added to it for cold weather, range practices, boat work, boarding, etc. etc. It was always locally adapted to make up for lack of provision. Try and get it right this time and model dress for each of the tasks required on board and ashore.

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      • #33
        Most navies are plain blue.

        What would be wrong with a single colour (blue or grey) uniform?

        Nothing and it would be cheaper.

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        • #34
          Grey won't work at sea, far too much exposure to oil and grease pain't etc....will become stained and dirty too fast.Not sure what the problems are with the colouring of the current rig...but it doen't show up the dirt as much as old blue and navy stuff. What ever material, pockets etc are required juts add them to the current set up and run it off in a single colour...in suitable material..and make it modular
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • #35
            Regardless as to what outfit is decided on, when it comes to doing painting and decorating and mucking around in the engine just throw on a pair of overalls for the job , duh .
            Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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            • #36
              Aussies had grey overalls up to around 2006, as their normal.uniform. appropriate rank marking and garment worn underneath, appropriate to climate of their AO. They changed to the grey camo pattern, again makes sense in some of their inshore waters.
              I think though, what the NS were trying to achieve. Everyone wears Navy workwear these days. Customs, Firemen, Civil Defence, most HGV mechanics, most telecommunication contractors. It's the default workwear colour.
              The NS have chosen workwear that is instantly identifiable in a mass of navy coloured uniforms, who is actually Navy.
              It's well overdue. I'm sure we'll grow to like it in time.
              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
              German 2: Private? I am a general!
              German 1: That is the bad news.

              Comment


              • #37
                Of course I will defend the NS position. Remember most of what is got from the Master's table comes through a green sieve.
                Really? MM seems to have found a away around that with the extra ship even though there wasn't enough people to crew it.
                As I said I do not like the large pattern disrupted coloration and would have no problem with proven naval dress from other European navies. They all seem to struggle with producing a sensible dress but the emerging consensus seems to be a form of DPM.
                Ah no. I just did a quick search and France,Germany,The Netherlands,Spain and Portugal all have a plain navy or blue uniform.

                The Brits will always be traditional. We were too-when I joined the working rig was ARMY Orangey/Brown jacket and pants with brass buttons, both the ratings and the navy disliked it. The main problem to be overcome is that a blue shirt and pants needs to have other elements added to it for cold weather, range practices, boat work, boarding, etc. etc. It was always locally adapted to make up for lack of provision. Try and get it right this time and model dress for each of the tasks required on board and ashore.
                So issue an updated version of the Plain Navy smock and associated underlayers that the NS experimented with a few years back for day to day use and a set of normal DPMs for ranges etc.No need for a bespoke pattern that is going to cost Johnny and jane taxpayer more. You did hit the nail on head though. This has nothing to do with Operational effectiveness it is driven by two core factors.Corporate Identity( An NS Tally on the Shirt/smock and a BFO tricolour cant do this???) and most important of all to the NS : "We don't want to look like the Army!"

                PS: Here what the Yanks are going for now:
                https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  Here what the Yanks are going for now:
                  https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
                  Actually quite like the colour scheme and cut of that uniform
                  Thought gone into that, to be fair
                  "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Actually come to think of it, a navy blue version of the uniform in the original picture could also be used by our colleagues in Baldonnel
                    Thus, cutting down on the number of uniforms required in stores (only need DPM for Army, a navy blue for Air Corps / NS)
                    Make it hard wearing, and it could also be suitable for use by the aircraft techs?
                    Economies of scale, as someone mentioned above
                    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Laners View Post
                      Regardless as to what outfit is decided on, when it comes to doing painting and decorating and mucking around in the engine just throw on a pair of overalls for the job , duh .
                      Think back ffs.. we were lucky to have what we stood up in....never mind Gucci stuff for painting such as overalls
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        Actually come to think of it, a navy blue version of the uniform in the original picture could also be used by our colleagues in Baldonnel
                        Thus, cutting down on the number of uniforms required in stores (only need DPM for Army, a navy blue for Air Corps / NS)
                        Make it hard wearing, and it could also be suitable for use by the aircraft techs?
                        Economies of scale, as someone mentioned above
                        How could you even think of such a think you charlatan...share kit with an opposing service.... how dare you.... treachery!
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Well, on reflection, cost can't be an issue, in view of the millions handed back each year by DoD. At least some of it may as well be spent.
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Cost is not an issue when it comes to manufacturing these uniforms.
                            The contractor just has to threaten its staff that unless they complete the irish order for 2000 different colour uniforms in time they won't get their wifi back and their parents will be called before the factory manager...
                            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                            German 2: Private? I am a general!
                            German 1: That is the bad news.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

                              Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
                              The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
                              But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

                              Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
                              I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
                              What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


                              The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

                              Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                                The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

                                Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
                                The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
                                But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

                                Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
                                I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
                                What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


                                The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

                                Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.
                                I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

                                The more Ikon posts the better.

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