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  • #46
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It's simple, and it is individual will, and a willingness to work at home and attend local lectures. Naval Service needs to Draft a syllabus for Basic Bridge watch keeper and organise a course with NMCI or RYCA. As I said my Doctor got his yacht masters certificate while in full time practice. It's a top down obligation from the Service and mustn't be talked into the dustbin. Simon probably is one himself as he did a world voyage in a family yacht.
    So will that allow them to act as a unsupervised watchkeeper on an OPV?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
      If you remove mentoring and some kinds of craft handling from the experience chain of sea going personnel they will arrive on board like press ganged civilians and must be supervised for their own safety. it's a chicken and egg conundrum.
      Most navies use small craft such as Archers to train young officers and seamen in craft handling. They get assigned to larger craft eventually to learn routines and systems at sea. Any NSR's I took to sea were well looked after by crew and by end of voyage fitted in usefully. Officers are a particular problem and must be trained by a graduated process to be a bridge watchkeeper. Given the will and inputs it is doable.
      A launch should be doable

      The NS needs OPV watcheepers!

      NSR junior ratings go to see and do the job within limits of training once experienced... Junior officers do go to sea and act as understudy but they don’t AFAIK do anything unsupervised (unless they have an external qualification)

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      • #48
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        A launch should be doable

        The NS needs OPV watcheepers!

        NSR junior ratings go to see and do the job within limits of training once experienced... Junior officers do go to sea and act as understudy but they don’t AFAIK do anything unsupervised (unless they have an external qualification)
        They can do Officer of the Day ( Orderly Officer ) in port, OOW at anchor, and second hand to the watch officer at sea. They can accompany a Boarding officer to other vessels .The main need is to examine and qualify in AstroNav, Seamanship , Chartwork, and Meteorology. They would also need a basic Gunnery course to immediately cover weapons up to 20mm and later 57mm/76mm. The appointments on board as well as being Watchkeepers are Gunnery and Boarding Officer, Navigation and Communications Officer, Executive Officer and Second in Command. The NSR officer could aspire to a Nav/Comms/watchkeeping role when duly qualified.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          It's simple, and it is individual will, and a willingness to work at home and attend local lectures. Naval Service needs to Draft a syllabus for Basic Bridge watch keeper and organise a course with NMCI or RYCA. As I said my Doctor got his yacht masters certificate while in full time practice. It's a top down obligation from the Service and mustn't be talked into the dustbin. Simon probably is one himself as he did a world voyage in a family yacht.
          I have my Yachtmasters and 30 years of offshore cruising. I have no illusions about my ability to perform any meaningful role on an NS vessel but I could probably do OOW , if only on the basis that I'd know when to scream for the Skipper !
          “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
          ― Thucydides

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            They can do Officer of the Day ( Orderly Officer ) in port, OOW at anchor, and second hand to the watch officer at sea. They can accompany a Boarding officer to other vessels .The main need is to examine and qualify in AstroNav, Seamanship , Chartwork, and Meteorology. They would also need a basic Gunnery course to immediately cover weapons up to 20mm and later 57mm/76mm. The appointments on board as well as being Watchkeepers are Gunnery and Boarding Officer, Navigation and Communications Officer, Executive Officer and Second in Command. The NSR officer could aspire to a Nav/Comms/watchkeeping role when duly qualified.
            Maybe it's easier now but Astronav is quite involved and in my day, required quite a high proficiency in spherical trigonometry. It's not for everyone. (I actually understand it better now than 30 years ago, but I would still be relying on a pretty high end scientific calculator for assistance, once I have the formulae in fornt of me).
            And Nories Tables of course.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Shaqra View Post
              I have my Yachtmasters and 30 years of offshore cruising. I have no illusions about my ability to perform any meaningful role on an NS vessel but I could probably do OOW , if only on the basis that I'd know when to scream for the Skipper !
              There you go! That's what Captains expect and write in their Night orders." If in Doubt , at anytime, call me" .

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              • #52
                Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                There you go! That's what Captains expect and write in their Night orders." If in Doubt , at anytime, call me" .
                Reminds me of the time my ship was leaving Arklow on a sunday, heading for a european port and Having cleaned myself up after lines and cargo, passed through the bridge, to see it unattended, with ship on Autopilot. As a good cadet, decided to have a look at the chart to see where we were.
                We were in the North bound channel of a seperation scheme, heading south. Decided to tell the skipper (who was quite approachable) in his cabin, trying to tune his TV.
                "Oh. Is there much traffic?"
                "Just some trawlers crossing sir"
                "Good, unless you are busy, keep a lookout, and call me if any other ships pop on the radar"
                And so I was in effective command of an Irish flagged vessel, in Irish waters, having not quite done as well as can be expected on my Class 3 exam, and deciding to go for a class 5 (near Continental) once I had some seatime...going the wrong way down a maritime motorway.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                  I know how the equals work for a mowag. What I dont is how a yacht masters is going to train the NSR to operate their boats as some have suggested ie hoardings, Rhino weapons platforms etc. It cant be as simple as a civi yacht master.

                  They could fufill any non-military role on non-armed small craft.

                  It is possible that they could assist in some sort of coastal policing role i.e coastal fisheries protection or surveillance/hailing/inspections during the summer months.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                    They could fufill any non-military role on non-armed small craft.

                    It is possible that they could assist in some sort of coastal policing role i.e coastal fisheries protection or surveillance/hailing/inspections during the summer months.
                    Assume you mean military role on a non-armed small craft ?

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                    • #55
                      Is there any admin tasks in the base that they could support, freeing up qualified watchkeeping officers who can then go to sea?
                      I see our neighbours with the Crown have their reserve officers holding admin functions that reflect their civilian occupation, such as PR officer, or logistics.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                        Is there any admin tasks in the base that they could support, freeing up qualified watchkeeping officers who can then go to sea?
                        I see our neighbours with the Crown have their reserve officers holding admin functions that reflect their civilian occupation, such as PR officer, or logistics.
                        I’m sure there is but those guys are supposed to be on their 2 years ashore

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                        • #57
                          And if someone at sea wants to take annual leave, who takes their job at sea?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            And if someone at sea wants to take annual leave, who takes their job at sea?
                            In my day the operational ships had leave periods, perhaps twice a year for 21 days each time, to use up 42 days leave for sea going personnel. Officers generally stuck with that except for marriages, funerals etc. We would let other ranks go within the unit and carry it where we could except for key technicians. Reserves taking shore jobs to keep others permanently at sea is a crap idea as well as been counterproductive.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              And if someone at sea wants to take annual leave, who takes their job at sea?
                              Absolutely but it problem is more at sea than ashore. If the 2 years ashore is protected more it will improve retention

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                In my day the operational ships had leave periods, perhaps twice a year for 21 days each time, to use up 42 days leave for sea going personnel. Officers generally stuck with that except for marriages, funerals etc. We would let other ranks go within the unit and carry it where we could except for key technicians. Reserves taking shore jobs to keep others permanently at sea is a crap idea as well as been counterproductive.
                                They are not "taking" shore jobs, they are filling in ashore while the nav qualified officer goes to sea. The reason NSR other ranks are getting so much seatime is because clearly this leave system in place at a time when the navy wasn't struggling with manpower issues no longer happens. They are filling in seamans branch positions at sea up to PO level.
                                There is a Lieutenant (NS) that has the role of glorified receptionist for FOCNS. I'm sure this officer would prefer to be at sea for two weeks instead of making coffee for the Flags guests. I'm also pretty sure an NSR officer would be happy and able to operate the Flags calendar for 2 weeks, even if they have not completed the coffee machine course.
                                I am trying to come up with options here. Calling it a crap idea is a tad dismissive.

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