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  • Combat Swimmers

    Just out of curiosity, in the context of rumours/wishes of the NS operating a troopship; would that scenario create a need or scope for the current NS diver training to be expanded to something approaching that of a Combat swimmer branch.
    i.e. Would there be room beyond the already extensive training requirements of NS divers to provide for beach recconaissance, obstacle demolition and sabotage of defences.

    Once again putting this purely in an expeditionary peace support context, would this role expansion:
    (a) Provide a NS troopship and or Recce/Security PV with a valuable always on asset by means of increasing the available number of combat divers (The ARW already have a Combat swimmer capability).
    In this regard the nature of the work should be clarified, rather than a duplicate of the ARW's recce and raiding roles, a Naval Diver team would for the most part simply be increasing the NS's ability to carry out NS tasks overseas securely.
    This would be achieved by:
    1. Locating obstacles such as wreckage, mines or manmade defences before an NS vessel moves into an unsecured harbour or port, such as may be found on peace support operations in locations where the state has collapsed.
    2. Providing armed security in said locations during the final approach of NS vessels or during a hasty departure such as in an evacuation of civilian or military personnel who cannot avail of other exit routes.
    3.Providing onshore recconaissance either covertly or overtly (i.e. directing landings of personnel and materials).
    4. Assisting Army recconaisance and SOF personnel in infiltrating inshore, by means of security and intelligence.
    5. Providing onshore EOD capability for the securing of contested harbours etc.

    (b) Enhance the Expeditionary capabilities of the NS PVs by providing the aforementioned services for premission recconaissance and security.
    1. Providing an independent NS EOD clearance role (AFAIK underwater EOD is part of exisitng diver training but I'm unaware if they are trained to do so in unsecured environments.
    2. Ensuring that ports and harbours nominally secured by international forces are genuinely so.
    3. Providing security for onshore and inshore pre-mission recconaisance in the even that ARW or other security personnel are not available.


    Basically what I'm suggesting is 20 or so Naval divers being given additional recce and EOD training and ten being deployed with any NS vessel that goes on operations outside Irish territorial waters.
    This might seem modest to some, but given the size of the NS and the limited number of Divers altogether, added to the fact that the German Navy despite being larger than the total DF only has a similar number of combat swimmers will hopefully allow you to realise how ambitious a suggestion this actually is.
    Nonetheless I'm making it on the basis that if it were to be put succesfully into operation it would (a) increase the security and capability of NS and DF missions overeseas and (b) Extend the potential for involvement in these operations of the NS far more than a similar investment in ship based weapon systems (asuming any new PVs will be armed ).
    17
    Yes
    47.06%
    8
    No
    17.65%
    3
    Its too much to ask of the divers
    5.88%
    1
    Leave it to the ARW
    29.41%
    5
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  • #2
    don't usually post here but here go's,

    wonder what the navy diver's actually do , and is the diver's course just a glorified sport's diver's course such as PADI or CFT :p .

    right stand back and wait for the abuse :D :D :D ,

    keep safe.

    Comment


    • #3
      Actually JPB I believe the reason they created a seperate Divers badge for the ARW was that their course covered less material, i.e. underwater welding
      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

      Comment


      • #4
        Combat swimmers???
        is that like slang for extra potent sperm or something?
        Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

        http://www.iamawesome.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          so cq,

          what you are trying to say is that the navel service diver's course is a fairly complex course as it is, so why the call to change it ,

          keep safe :D :D .

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually I acknowledged that fact in my initial post, I simply argued that a further course for qualified naval divers would be useful to the NS and the DF as a whole.
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

            Comment


            • #7
              why fix it if it aint broke, if a medic did a parachute course would you want to call him a parajumper, he will be still using the skill's he had in the first place except now he can jump out of a plane , so, the navy diver's do a great job as it is, and it is one of the more complex course's in the DF and i don't think any of them would hold with your call for change , why not leave the navy to the navy.

              they have my full respect, and fair play to them and i hope that they may continue doing what they are doing,

              keep safe.

              Comment


              • #8
                As I said both in the original response and in my subsequent posts, I was suggesting a further training course for qualified divers.
                How exactly you can manage to misconstrue that as saying that current training is inadequate is beyond me.
                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                Comment


                • #9
                  Underwater demolition is one of the aspects of an NS divers course - covers quite a bit I believe.
                  The course is probably the hardest to get onto in the DF, wrt to health, fitness, etc. its also very easy to be retired as it is "Demand" diving, a commercial diver can decline to dive for various reasons but if an NS diver does so once they are no longer an NS diver.

                  The divers have been very busy doing body searches lately, it keeps them very busy.
                  No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
                  No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i did not want to point out these aspect's to cq, i would prefer someone from the NS to do it, but as a sports recreational diver and having worked with the NS diver's i cant see how someone not from that field can try and suggest way's to make thing's "better",

                    keep safe.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do the NS divers concentrate on technical tasks or combat type stuff?
                      .
                      .
                      .
                      With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                      Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the UK the diving course is open to their Combat Engineers as...
                        beach recconaissance, obstacle demolition and sabotage of defences.
                        ..... is what their Combat Engineers are tasked with on land. I don't see why our combat engineers shouldn't be given the option to do a diving course, if they so wish and have the apititude. Our NS Divers should also be given this option to specialise (are they not already tasked with these roles?) in this area to become a Combat Diver.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A full study on future NS involvement in overseas ops would have to be carried out before deciding what, if any, extra training NS divers require. At the moment, they have enough on their plate.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Steve
                            In the UK the diving course is open to their Combat Engineers as... ..... is what their Combat Engineers are tasked with on land. I don't see why our combat engineers shouldn't be given the option to do a diving course, if they so wish and have the apititude. Our NS Divers should also be given this option to specialise (are they not already tasked with these roles?) in this area to become a Combat Diver.
                            On the GIGN website before they took it down, in the section on the ARW it list's, beach recce, underwater demolition and obstecle clearing, harbour recce and sabotage as part of the dive team's expertease

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think it may be worth pointing out that the Naval Diving course is one of the few courses in the defence forces where people have actually died during the course...
                              From exhaustion.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment

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