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  • NSR on NS Vessels

    I've a few questions about NSR serving on NS vessels?
    1. Is it open to all ranks, or just ratings?
    2. Are the NSR doing specfic jobs on board, or can they be in any specialisation?
    3. Do they do any specific training (apart from the normal on the yachts and lauches)?
    4. Is it treated as a kind of on the job training?

  • #2
    They go and do they job of the ratingbthey are replacing ...obviously specialities like gunners etc are not available from the NSR ranks but steaming watches and ships husbandry are among the functions carried out...it is open to both senior and junior rates
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      "steaming watches and ships husbandry"
      Ya gotta love the navy :D

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      • #4
        yeah staeming watches...ie helm ...look out and NCO in charge of the watch....watches are broken down into 4 hour shifts .Engine room watches and bridge watches.

        Ships husbandry ..ie maintaince at sea to include cleaning painting and light mainataince on boats and their associated equipment . beats the shit out of sweeping the lines and cutting the grass!
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #5
          Without drifting too far off topic,I think the term "animal husbandry" sounds far more sinister than "Ships Husbandry".


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #6
            Cheers folks

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            • #7
              Dev,

              to answer your questions:

              1. It is open to all ranks.

              2. All NSR personnel are now part of the Exectuive (seaman's) Branch and there is no longer an establishment in an NSR unit for any other specialisations.

              3. All seagoing NSR personnel recieve the same (certified) fire-fighting, damage control and sea survival courses as NS personnel. This must be refreshed every 3 years.

              4. In addition to the above mentioned courses, all basic military skills (Styer, Footdrill etc) is provided at unit level and during recruit training, in addition to basic seamanship training ( Knots, bends, hitches, whipping, splicing, terminoligy, small boat handling, ships routine, bouyage and pilotage, yada yada). At this stage the newly qualified Ordinary Seaman (Private 2 star) is sent to a ship for a 2 or 3 week patrol. You are quite correct to assume that "on the job" training now commences just as it does for the new PDF O/S. This "on the job" training is however formally recorded and assesed in a taskbook which details 34 tasks which must be completed to the satisfaction of the relevant head of department aboard and signedand stamped. The O/S is then entitled to go forward for independent assesment in order to be advanced to Able Seaman. A PDF O/S should be ready for assesment after about 6 months attached to a ship. The guidelines for an NSR O/S reccomend at least three patrols and furthur training at unit level. In practice this would mean 18 months to two years if high standars are applied.

              To Expand:

              At present our O/S's and A/B's are being sent out as direct replacements for PDF personnel going on leave or courses. I would argue that our average O/S after 6-9 months of part-time training and 1-2 weeks of full time training can be 80% as effective as his average PDF counterpart after 13 weeks of permanant training. if they both go to sea for the first time together it would be hard to seperate them after a couple of patrols.

              However semanship is far more of a trade than a job. The seaman is never finished learning. I firmly belive it is possible to train an FCA sgt to be as good platoon sgt as a PDF sgt within the 42 days a year limit. You will NEVER train an NSR P.O./Sea to replace the Bosun of a naval ship. The years of experience involved cannot be transfered. You will NEVER train an NSR officer, however willing or intelligent, to be a Watchkeeper. The time is simply not there.

              So while our O/S may breifly strive for parity with his PDF comrade, the A/B can only hope to be 60% as effective, the L/S of the future perhaps 40% and so on as the experience gap widens.

              What senior ranks must do is apply themselves to modular training so that they can be just as competent as there equivilant PDF comrade in some aspects of his job spec. eg boardings, gunnery, admin. In this way they may never relieve him but they can free him up for other duties and training which may be negleted due to crew shortages.

              Relief for watchkeeping officers (and a standing reserve in case of mobilzation) is being provided by retired officers of the first line reserve who are training on an annual basis. these are the only FLR personnel that I have heard of doing Annual Training at present in the DF.

              Slua Muiri personnel could always do there annual training at sea except for a period when Brett was FOCNS. A minority always did so but were restricted by bugetary concerns to one week a year. Until the Re-org implementation began 3 years ago the Slua was somthing of an irrelevant yacht club. Now we find it difficult to meet the manpower demands of the ships. Everything is change utterly. We have gone from being exclusively training units to being almost semi-operational. The demands on the time and energy of officers, NCOs and cadre staff is incredable. when I read impatient posts callind for the re-org to be delivered ASAP I think "be careful what you wish for!".

              The true benefits of the increased integration are only now becoming clear. As the recruits of 2001 return to ships for the fifth or sixth time. As ships Bosuns and Cox'ns request personnel by name. When on regemental duties in the naval base our ratings are recognised by shipmates in the PDF who are now based ashore and on duty with them.

              Retention has improved considerably. In addition to six week's line pay a year our people can earn an additional €46 a day in patrol duty allowance. NSR personnel now go on almost all foreign trips - Russia, Germany, Belgium, Spain France etc. Five NSR personnel were aboard Eithne, with all vacinations in place, ready to go to Liberia when the re-supply trip was cancelled.

              Those who stay for the long haul will be far superior NCOs and Officers to those of us trying our best at present. We are very envious of the oppertunities which they can take for granted. We all wish to be x years younger.

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              • #8
                To hold The Minimum watchkeeping qualification recognised internationally(Class 4 Near continental) takes a minimum of 1 years intensive on the job training,including supervised understudy.
                Should the NSR at least aim to reach the basic navigation qualification? If you cannot carry out the task of your seagoing NS counterpart at the same rank, what can you do?


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #9
                  Thanks for the detail Sluggie.....Just one poinT I wish to debate. Box Car Willie brett wasn't the first to throw a spanner in the works for seagoing....In my time it was Liam Moloney. The senior officers in the NS at the time all had serious attitude toward The SM.

                  As I said earlier it was next near impossible even to get a giuded tour of a ship in the old days if you were SM.

                  they can be used as boarding officers or understudies on the bridge ...or used as reliefs for divisional officers in the base and thus free up watchkeeping officers for seagoing. With the rebirth of the RDF the FLR has been disbanded...sea going officers are however contractually obliged to serve time at sea after retirement.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #10
                    Merchant mariner's over in blighty can become 'X' list RNR personel who once they have proved certain capabilities can Join the service at the equivilent rank and trade as thier Merchant position.

                    Is it the same for the NS?

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                    • #11
                      Yes there are vacancies for direct into the NS but I don't think it applies to The NSR.

                      Jockey Jordan and Jim Robinson are two direct entries of note...Jordan attained Cmdr rank and Robinson is Capt....and my bets are on for him as a futre FOCNS. It is worthy to note the different attitude of direct entries to the service than those who have come through the cadet system.

                      Alot of engineering an specialists are direct entries....The trend nowadays is to recruit from the lower decks and commission suitable candidates.

                      Afriend of mine was the first to do so back in 1988 but has since retired and opened his own business.he was recalled for 6 weeks a few years back doring the 9 11 term as he was a clearance diver. Nice bloke .....a bit of a nutter as well but professional to the core.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #12
                        I'd say Mellet Has the upper hand on Robinson...Jockey could have gone all the way too if He hadnt stepped on so many toes while OCND..allegedly, though he also had lots of senior bodies ahead of him..


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #13
                          Jim Robinson is senior.....didn't think Mark Mellet was a captain yet ....seniority is a must . Thats how frank Lynch got the job. Jockey was passed over because he was a DE and at the time a DE as FOCNs was a big no no! Good guy ..a bit of a headbanger but was never going to make flag rank.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • #14
                            Mellet isn't a captain yet, but will be (when Robinson goes which happens before Frank Lynch does)
                            No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
                            No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

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                            • #15
                              Is that off topic or what!
                              No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
                              No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

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