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  • Boarding parties

    I just have a few questions about the boarding parties the Naval Serive uses.

    What sort of powers do boarding parties from the Naval Service have in Irish or international waters?

    I know they are mostly normal sailors as opposed to a Marine type force so what extra training do they receive?

    Have they pulled off any major seizures of drugs etc?

    After all the claims brought against the army for deafness has anybody ever considered that firing a BAP or Steyr(if they are carried by boarding parties) in enclosed spaces such as cabins isn't a great idea?How about a suppressed weapons such as below or is that too contentious with the public or military officials perceiving a suppressor wrongly?
    Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 8 February 2006, 22:46.
    Si vis pacem para bellum

  • #2
    im sure i read somewhere here that other nations forces have studied our navies methods of boarding with interest, because it is such a common operation here that our sailors are very capable and held in high regard.

    Im sure they arent just "ordinary" seamen either, dont they get the same weapons and tactics training as the army before they are assigned a position in the navy wherein im sure they learn how to do a boarding operation properly????

    im a sandbag... what would i know.... :D
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    • #3
      NS Boarding parties have been trained by the Gardai in the correct procedure for searching hostile environments,ie,ships,and the marksmanship standards are taught to the same standards as the Army,and the rest of the DF. They are not Normal sailors. Military training comes first,then seamanship.
      Using a supressed firearm to safe the firers hearing is not why these weapons were designed,I think you'll appreciate..Naval Boarding parties do not board ships all guns blazing. In the confines of a ships accomodation,firing any weapon can be detrimental to the health of the firer,as well as all others on board,as most hulls of smaller craft are either wood or GRP,and whats behind that hull? If the weapon is fired above the waterline,there is a great risk that it could hit one of the boarding party on the other side of the bulkhead.
      When the bulkheads are built of steel or aluminium,the risk of ricochet is greater. In summary,the boarding parties are trained to subdue the possible agressors without the use of firearms where possible,firearms being a last resort. This is why the BAP is the standard weapon for all boarding parties since the withdrawal of the Model 45(Gustav 9mm SMG). The retort from a fired Bap is potentially less damaging than other weapons,even when used in confined spaces.They also make use of a telescopic baton.
      The steyr is Never carried by boarding parties


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #4
        I wouldn't have suspected Gardai involvement in traing but it being a lawenfrocement mission I should have thought of it.Also I'm impressed with their choice of the ASP batons. A great choice for an impact weapon.At least I hope the Navy bought the real ASP's.Of course I know they don't board ships all guns blazing also must have confused the USCG use of the Steyr with yours.Any law enforcement mission aims to not have to resort to use of force and I also see this as one of the trademarks of a successful action, but in todays world, with increased smuggling and terrorists may mean contact between NS personnel and agressors would be inevitable. I know the purposes that firearms supressors were built for, the technical details behind their construction and also why the term silencer is wrong and supressor is correct.Of course saving a fireers hearing wasn't the original idea but frequently US SWAT teams use silenced MP5s to save hearing within confined sapces since much of their work is indoors. The reduced noise and velocity combined with specialised low penetration rounds such as Glazers reduces risk to NS personel in any case as opposed to those BAPs which have been around for too long and are as dangerous to the user.The use of the pistol though has been examined many times and it is a last resort weapons wise.SMGs and rifles are safer for all concerned, except for those being shot at.
        Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 26 March 2004, 19:10.
        Si vis pacem para bellum

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        • #5
          You ever used/trained with a baton FTD?
          .
          .
          .
          With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

          Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

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          • #6
            In Naval practice,the rifles and larger calibre weapons would remain on the mother ship,providing covering fire. The narrow confines of any small craft which normally come under Naval scrutiny would make any form of rifle impractical,even the smaller carbines if attempts were made to use it aboard,as well as the high muzzle velocity and range,which would not be required on an 18 foot yacht...


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #7
              Practised some riot work with the RUC as it was.Got to jump out of Landrovers with shields etc but that was only a few hours work doing tactics, positioning baton round man etc.But those where big batons as opposed to ASPs which are much handier, and as unprofessional as it is I just have to say they look soooo cool.Must say, those police Landrovers are the must uncomfortable things i've ever had the displeasure to be in.

              Of course carbines etc aren't of much use on an 18foot yacht, but you should always have the right tool available for the job.
              Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 26 March 2004, 20:26.
              Si vis pacem para bellum

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ForkTailedDevil
                I'm impressed with their choice of the ASP batons. A great choice for an impact weapon.At least I hope the Navy bought the real ASP's.
                Who said the batons are ASP batons.
                What do you mean by real ASPs, Monadnock and other companies make expandable batons.
                It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                It was the year everything changed.

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                • #9
                  Practised some riot work with the RUC as it was.Got to jump out of Landrovers with shields etc but that was only a few hours work doing tactics, positioning baton round man etc.But those where big batons as opposed to ASPs which are much handier, and as unprofessional as it is I just have to say they look soooo cool.Must say, those police Landrovers are the must uncomfortable things i've ever had the displeasure to be in.
                  So, just to get it clear, your personal knowledge of the ASP is nil, so this statement hasn't much validity:

                  Also I'm impressed with their choice of the ASP batons. A great choice for an impact weapon.At least I hope the Navy bought the real ASP's.
                  Does this apply to your expert commentary on the firearms issues in this thread too?
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                  Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm sure FTD meant 'ASP' to mean 'telescopic baton', and he can be forgiven for substituting one for the other. ASP has become synonymous with telescopic batons, much like Hoover is with vacuum cleaners.
                    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                    • #11
                      As far as I am aware ASP are the makers of the original expandable baton.No, i don't have personal knowleadge of their use but I do know others who love theirs and thats good enough for me.See here for specs and info

                      http://www.asp-net.com

                      They are the yardstick by which others are judged.ASP are probably the batons most often encountered in police circles, including the choice of the FBI, because of the reputation and build quality, but of course there are other imitators, for instance Casco.FMalloy is rite, saying asp(like the snake) is the same as saying Hoover instead of vacuum cleaner.Many of the other makers are excellent, such as Monadnock, but theres nothing like an original.I saw a poster elsewhere use the phrase about the militaries aquisition policy being to"spend a tenner to save a fiver".I was just saying purchasing the original and best is better, if more expensive than buying cheaper versions were the spring goes wonky after a few flicks.
                      Si vis pacem para bellum

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                      • #12
                        The most notable success in the drugs enforcement role in recent years was the seizure of the "Brime" some years back,which was carrying 3 or 4 tonnes of Cannabis if I remember rightly. The fast actions of the Boarding party prevented the crew from scuttling the boat before an arrest could be made. Naval Boarding parties have the same power as a customs officer or garda when engaged in the drugs enforcement role,including powers of arrest and search,while in Irish waters. Outside Irish waters you are talking International law.
                        There have been other notable successes in the past,including the capture of the Marita Ann,which was engaged in gun running for the IRA with Martin Ferris TD at the wheel.
                        I believe the weapon of choice on that occasion was a pick axe handle,which found itself used to "restrain" certain crew members.....allegedly.
                        Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

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                        • #13
                          Maybe there should be a distinction made here between boarding parties and "armed boarding parties". Big difference. And although in the armed teams they have experienced correct training, they are still very much "normal" sailors.
                          There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today Chatfield
                          Admiral of the Fleet David Beatty, 1st Earl Beatty GCB OM GCVO

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                          • #14
                            Not ever one on a ships armed boarding team has had the course.

                            I have been on many excersies without an onuce of training and until recent it was a case of you, you and you just volunteered.

                            The day is coming when some coke head is gonna blow a few of my buddys away and it will be the Flags fault.

                            He has closed the AB team training bluiding on the island becaused the instructors dared to use trainging weapons (paintball pistols) provided by the Gardai without his permission.

                            Armed boardings are no joke and the seriousness of this situtation should be addressed before we have funerals to attend.

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                            • #15
                              I thought each crew had members trained in boarding tactics? this is a shock and an utter and complete misuse of authority, I think you all should get on to PDFORRA and at least raise the issue to public light...

                              Which is more important, your life and that of your fellow sailors, or your career???
                              "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                              "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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