Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Combat navy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Combat navy

    I'm doing a spot of research for a naval service wish list to accompany my army and aircorps list on Icuns board but being somewhat unfamiliar with naval matters I thought I'd best get some advice here so heres my thoughts so far:
    (To understand personnel policy it might be neccesary to read all three of my lists)

    1. An interdicton squadron consisting of the current OPVs and CPVs with the addition of three river class OPV's (10)

    2. A defense squadron operating three Standard Flex 300 multirole frigates and three Rauma Class PCFGs (6)

    3. A small boat squadron operating 3-4 SF100s (NSR), and 3 Cyclone class CPV's operated by Naval Short service personnel (see my army 2010 list at Icun's) and two or three Naval personnel, with bow launched RIB for assisting interdiction at sea or the ARW in the COIN role.
    4. An Expeditonary squadron operating 1 amphibious landing platform which uses army and Air Corps personnel wherever possible.
    5. an Endevour class AOR operated by merchant seamen and used for various government tasks other than defense.

    Try and read my army and air corps 2010 lists before judging this one, also any useful links on naval structures and equipment would be much appreciated
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  • #2
    What roles are you hoping to cover? Why Bow launched? I have not seen that,it sounds messy.

    Need more info please....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Right, roles...I'm looking at maintaining the current fishery protection role but re-establishing a territorial defence role and providing contingents to multinational efforts including disaster relief.
      The SF300/100s would provide surface combat /ASW and mine warfare capabilities a (obviously the 100 isn't a combatant), while the Rauma class or possibly the larger stealthier Hamina would provide the primary combat capability and provide escorts and a striking force in any warfighting situation.
      The Cyclone class with the bow launch upgrade seems to have been succesful in US service and the Cyclones being transferred to the Phillipines navy are being upgraded to this standard (the bow opens up).
      The Cyclone class vessels would be used to assist the interdiction squadron in police actions as well as undertaking waterway patrols and putting specialist land parties ashore.
      Obviously the replenishment ship and amphibious warfare vessel are solely for the support of peace enforcement and disaster relief operations, I still haven't found a suitable LSD or LPH for our small numbers and budget but the Endeavour class AOR is used by New Zealand and is a refitted commercial freighter hull.
      What I would expect this force to do is:
      1. Protect the 200 mile exclusion zone from breach of fishery laws and to prevent smuggling.
      2. To provide some territorial defense capability against military threat.
      3. To provide enough sea lift capability to move and sustain a mechanised battalion battle group to out of area operations and to provide security for that battle group while at sea.
      4. To provide disaster relief capabilites for pollution control and sealift for secure aid delivery.

      Is that any clearer?
      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

      Comment


      • #4
        Why go for the british Island instead of a modified version of the Roisin? the vRauma is designed for the baltic, wouldn't it have difficulties surviving off our west coast? W

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah I just remembered the Rauma's shallow draft.
          Isn't the Island a more capable hull?
          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

          Comment


          • #6
            How about the Barzan PCFG used by the Qatari navy?
            Or at least its mother hull the Vita
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

            Comment


            • #7
              The whole thing about fast attack craft is that earlier Irish experiments with MBT were far from sucessful, tho i'm no sailor, the Athlantic is fairly rough for small boats, amd i got horribly sea sick on the Aran island ferry. Secondly, though they were fashionable from 1967 after the Eilat sinking, events in the Gulf in 1991 showed that fast attack craft were vunerable to helicopters armed with missiles, hence why saddam has no navy, despite Sinbad being from Basra. South Africa, Germany and israel all operated Fast attack craft in large numbers, but are replacing theirs with with large corvettes, Meko A-200, K-130, Eilat.


              Finally, thwe simple fact is that irelanmd faces no realistic naval threat, and won't as long as the British are there.

              Comment


              • #8
                I appreciate the point on small boats in the atlantic but as for threat the same argument can be and is used against every item of defense spending.
                what military role would you suggest for the NS?
                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                Comment


                • #9
                  fleet

                  i think the best that the ns can hope for is a 10 ship fleet comprising of
                  1 hpv, eithne (till she is decommisioned, and she will be the last hpv i'd say, because of the non-integration and non-cooperation of the air corps)
                  2 cpvs, orla and ciara will be around for another 10 years
                  5 lopvs, another 3 along with niamh and roisin
                  1 troop carrier which has been proposed already by the flag officer in his speech before his retirement. i think it will be similer to the new RN
                  ships bulwark and albion. it is proposed for irelands partisipation in the PFP.
                  1 aux, vessel


                  but id say even this small force is beyond possibility.

                  theres always hope......

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    mine warfare, look at the way that the British and Americans have had difficulties in opening Un Quasir.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thats why I included the three FlyVisken class multi-role frigates
                      Even if you just drop the three PCFGs althogether you'd have a better MP force plus a sealift cpability with up to two escorts for SS SA or anti-mine warfare
                      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ahem , the flyvenfisken aren't frigates though

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thats not whjat the product desigantion says
                          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Right I need more input for this and some llinks to please.


                            Current draft is.

                            1 Sqn- 1x HPV (Eithne) 1x OPV (Roisin) 1x CPV (Cyclone)

                            2 Sqn- 1x HPV (River) 1x OPV (Roisin) 1x CPV (Cyclone)

                            3 Sqn- 1x HPV (River) 1x OPV (Roisin) 1x CPV (Cyclone)

                            4 Sqn- 1x HPV (River) 1x OPV ( ) 1x CPV

                            Combat force, 3x SF300 multirole vessels.

                            Sealift force, 1x Endeavour class AOR (Small crew cheap)
                            1x LPD type vehicle capable of batttalion+ lift
                            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Old Sir Galahad type seems to be a nice auxiliary for our purpose. As seen at the moment it is being used to deliver stores and humanitarian aid to Iraq,but is designed as an LSL,though I doubt it was ever used in that role. Sure one of the type suffered a disasterous fire during the falklands,but that was due to the fact it was carrying troops and fuel at the same time..

                              The rest do not seem too unreasonable,though I dont know about the Cyclone.(the back is the stern by the way...) I think in practice the single point launching has been found to be very successful,and the stern launching especially on a 4 screw vessel has the potential for every launch to be a disaster,and as I have said over and over..our waters are rarely calm,like the area the Cyclone is normally seen(carribean,gulf of mexico).She is designed to operate in sea states 1 to 3,her max is 5. The average calm seas in the atlantic is 5,I done my rib course in cork harbour during a 6...Also in practice I doubt that one RIB would be sufficient for boarding larger vessels..all our ships have at least 2,most have 3.


                              Remember also that the River Class can land a heli only,it has no potential to operate one...like its ever going to happen anyway..The people who designed Roisin also came up with a version that included a helideck with a hangar for a small heli. In hindsight I would say that the helideck is all we require.

                              All in all though I dont think this is an unrealistic list,though the purpose of it is questionable. Eithne will be 20 years in the water in december..I doubt she could be considered in any long term plan for the Future of the NS at this stage.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X