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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    If we look at Europe very few navies now have there own drydocking facilities, looking at the medium sized navies:
    • The Danish base at Korsør Base which is home to their Iver Huitfeldt-class frigates and Absalon-class support ships has no drydock facility.
    • The Dutch base at Den Helder has only drydocking available for their frigates. The larger Rotterdam LPDs and Karel Doorman JSS cannot fit into the covered drydock.
    • The Norwegian base at Haakonsvern has a drydock inside a mountain! It could at a pinch fit their old Oslo class frigates (11m beam) but hasn't a chance of taking a Fridtjof Nansen class frigate.
    • The Portuguese base in Lisabon has no drydock what so ever. There was a shipyard next to the base but this has long since closed and the facilities dismantled.


    I agree we should do a co-operation with a close European Naval yard and is why I proposed the facilities in Brest. There is the extensive naval yard as well as commercial yards. Given the on-going debate about the new connection to the mainland EU, while nearby Roscoff has a ro-ro facility it is limited while Brest has a container terminal and an airport. The latter is handy to fly a few NS boys out to from Cork in the new PC12s. So thinking strategically it would be maybe a good idea to think about a strategic partnership between Cork and Brest. The French will get EU development fund to develop the harbour (Roscoff has limited expansion room) and the links to it. We get a good deal on the use of the naval yard and maybe even Stobart Air could switch from Cork Rennes to Cork Brest!(Save on the AC boys having to fly single engine over water!!!!).

    So coming back to the arguement we cannot get a 9000t EPV/MRV as we have no local drydock, I would think that it should not be a deciding factor.
    In that case you may as well go to Babcock at Devonport...14 dry docks...and they built a lot of your current fleet.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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    • Its all about Brexit. Will any UK yard be an option, economically post brexit? How much would the standard customs charges add to overall cost? Will tendering to a Non EU service provider be even permitted post brexit?

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      • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
        Its all about Brexit. Will any UK yard be an option, economically post brexit? How much would the standard customs charges add to overall cost? Will tendering to a Non EU service provider be even permitted post brexit?
        I tend to agree, the UK going the Brexit route means UK yards will have it hard to get EU work in the future. I am not sure what the WTO Third country tarrif is but we can be sure the EU has a high one to protect its shipyards.

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        • Do tarrifs apply to services?

          The could do on say a new gearbox (possibly a refurbished) being fitted to a vessel or something like that as it would be imported into the EU

          There wouldn’t be anything to stop a 3rd country getting the business so long as it is tendered legally
          Last edited by DeV; 25 August 2018, 20:06.

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Do tarrifs apply to services?

            The could do on say a new gearbox (possibly a refurbished) being fitted to a vessel or something like that as it would be imported into the EU

            There wouldn’t be anything to stop a 3rd country getting the business so long as it is tendered legally
            Ohh yeah, tarrifs definitely apply to services, in-fact the FTA with Canada (CETA) excluded services! A 3rd country can tender, they will just have a traffic to pay.

            However currently the EU tariff on warships from 3rd countries is 0%. The tariff can be found under the CN code 8906 10 00.
            Last edited by EUFighter; 25 August 2018, 21:30.

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            • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
              Will tendering to a Non EU service provider be even permitted post brexit?
              Another one of the reasons people voted leave...

              https://www.ice.org.uk/what-is-civil...royal-dockyard

              Interesting article about Devonport...the video is worth a watch.
              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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              • Ok not sure about services but if we purchased a MRV (or OPV) from a non-EU country under WTO rules there is 0% duty - HTC 890610 / 89069010

                Edit - you got there before me
                Last edited by DeV; 25 August 2018, 21:44.

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                • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  It seems that the one thing world wide which has zero tariff is any weapon system! Have to watch for garlic being import marked as bombs!
                  Spend a few bob finding out the cost of bringing Naval Drydock back into full service. Consider partnership with another Navy. Build or have accommodation/catering facilities for own and other ships undergoing repair in drydock. No crapping, weeing, or running water rule into drydock bottom. If off duty an MRV could also provide accommodation and services.
                  Commercial drydocking is always minimised to maintain running ships e.g. polishable hull paints and afloat cleaning systems. Warships are usually docked annually to maintain speed, fuel efficiency, check hull valves, check and replace anodes, check other hull fittings, and paint where necessary. Nine ships could require 18/27 drydock weeks. Drydocks need 4 weeks annual self maintenance and cleaning/hygiene. This leaves 21 weeks for exigencies and other invited users, including own naval harbour craft. Drydock staff are selected Yard workers from chippies, engineers etc. Strategically it is a good investment.

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                  • The only reason why at the moment I would be against developing a Naval Dockyard facility is the extremely low level of budget available to the DF. Although it would be strategically a good call there are many more pressing demands for funds. Pay, accommodating, equipment....................................

                    Having said that if the money was available then there is a bit of work to be done; the graving dock measures about 180m x 30m roughly. That would be enough for a Enforcer 9000/10000 and as they would be light, their draught would be less than their maximum of 5.2-5.5m. However the caisson would most likely replaced as the repair cost is probably higher than getting a new one. The altars on the end and side of the dock would have to be removed; this is part of the current plans so it can be assumed that this has been done. Then there would be a need for dockside cranes and workshops for manufacture and assembly of parts need for the overhaul.

                    On the point of commercial ship vs warship the actual inspections are very similar just that warships have it ever year while comercial ships it is twice every five years. But one thing that should not be forgotten is vessel refits, every 10-15 years a warship should be back for a major refit/upgrade. The time for such a refit varies from a couple of weeks to a couple of years! But if we assume 6 months and a 9 ship fleet with a refit cycle of 10 years then the place is 100% booked! Infact most work carried out in naval dockyards is refit work rather than just annual maintenance.
                    Last edited by EUFighter; 26 August 2018, 10:37.

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                    • I was aboard Aoife and Eithne for their mid life refit and the work involved was an eye opener. The one thing that stood out though was while the ship was being gutted and new equipment, carpets and furnishings fitted, the crew were still expected to live aboard. Not the full crew of course, but the skeleton staff required for duties etc. This is something that needs to be adressed urgently. Either construct permanent accomodation ashore in the Basin, or aquire portable accomodation modules, that can be used as required. In a few years all the fleet will be capable of holding at least 1 TEU aboard ship, they could do worse than include a self contained accom box. It would be better than a portaloo on the quayside.

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                      • Have Tymor Marine Ltd finished the survey of P50 and P51 and is there are news of what drydock will be used for the mid life upgrades ?

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                        • Originally posted by client View Post
                          Have Tymor Marine Ltd finished the survey of P50 and P51 and is there are news of what drydock will be used for the mid life upgrades ?






                          Much of the work can be done away from the drydock I'd say.

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                          • Originally posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post



                            Much of the work can be done away from the drydock I'd say.
                            If there are any residual matters to be rectified post HMCS Chicoutimi weather incident, if they are taken care of fully, then maybe she can be deployed to the same level of intensity as her sister-Mediterranean-circumnavigation of South America-Far east tour to China/Japan.

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                              If there are any residual matters to be rectified post HMCS Chicoutimi weather incident, if they are taken care of fully, then maybe she can be deployed to the same level of intensity as her sister-Mediterranean-circumnavigation of South America-Far east tour to China/Japan.
                              LE Roisin deployed on operation PONTUS in 2016.

                              That damage was fully repaired by Cork Dockyard Ltd under a repair contract.

                              LE Roisin before entering her MLEP was fully operational.

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                              • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                                LE Roisin deployed on operation PONTUS in 2016.

                                That damage was fully repaired by Cork Dockyard Ltd under a repair contract.

                                LE Roisin before entering her MLEP was fully operational.
                                Good to hear. I was afraid she had limitations. Nothing to worry about and her half life refit will boost her future use.

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