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  • New secondary armament for PVs?

    Heard rumours that the NS is wanting to buy 20mm Rheinmetalls to standardise the secondary armament throughout the fleet. Supposedly another European Navy has a stockpile & is selling them cheap!

  • #2
    Expensive option given that the Gambo was cheaper to purchase in the first place and barrel replacement is far cheaper than the Rheinmetall.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      Not when you consider that they're going cheap with ammo & spares & the Army are looking to buy 20mm Rheinmetalls for Cav MOWAG's which means there will always be a good supply of ammo.

      It should also be noted that the Rheimetall is a better 20mm, considered the 'Rolls Royce of 20mm's'. The gunner can remain in the vertical (standing) position while engaging a target at any elevation.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dogwatch
        Not when you consider that they're going cheap with ammo & spares & the Army are looking to buy 20mm Rheinmetalls for Cav MOWAG's which means there will always be a good supply of ammo.

        It should also be noted that the Rheimetall is a better 20mm, considered the 'Rolls Royce of 20mm's'. The gunner can remain in the vertical (standing) position while engaging a target at any elevation.
        I thought the army were getting 30mm ones:confused:
        Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

        Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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        • #5
          I stand corrected...... checked MOWAG website & it's 30mm alright. Still doesn't take from the fact that they're a bargain (20mm weapons that is).

          Thanks mutter
          Last edited by Dogwatch; 20 June 2006, 14:03.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dogwatch
            I satnd corrected...... checked MOWAG website & it's 30mm alright. Still doesn't take from the fact that they're a bargain (20mm weapons that is).

            Thanks mutter
            I just remembered it being mentioned on here a while back
            Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

            Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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            • #7
              I have no doubt the rhiemetall is the best chioce of weapon but the life span of the barrel expecially when break ups hot is used really limits the cost effectiveness. The ability to stand vertical at maximum elevation is handy but it requires quite an amount of strnght in the shoulders to maintain the position..as opposed to the enite body weight with the Oerlikon and Gambos. Rate of fire being another consideration as the Rh202 is one hungry weapon.

              Any way who is stockpiling them as the naval applications of the weapon have been nvery limited as opposed to the sales of the Gambo and other similar weapons.I'm not doubting what you say..just most of the production seemed to go into field rather than naval aplications.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #8
                Break up shot was only ever fired from Bofors 40mm L60, not even fired from L70's in the NS now. No arm of the PDF fires enough rounds down any of their major weapons to wear out the barrels in 20 years. One would need to be firing more than 10000 rds per year. Not to get into operational matters, but PDF units do not fire that much on any weapon system.

                'The new MLG 27 light naval gun has been selected to replace the German Navy's existing medium calibre gun systems. Made by Rheinmetall Waffe Munition, the MLG 27 is a remotely operated, autonomous system equipped with an integrated fire control unit. As primary or secondary armament, the new gun – coupled with high-performance FAPDS ammunition – is ideal for major surface combatants and support vessels operating in coastal areas and harbours. Worldwide, it is the only product of its kind.'

                http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/img/mlg_33_gr.jpg

                Guess who's selling??!

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                • #9
                  Its not practical to fit Rheinmetalls to the P50 class. There is noplace to mount them.
                  Same goes for the P40 class.
                  P31 already has them.
                  P20 class are due to retire shortly and their GAMBOs are nearly new.

                  Consign this one to the rumour bin. However the Search Radar on Eithne IS being upgraded.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                  • #10
                    Next time you're on an LPV have a look at the Flagdeck & spot the Gunnery Communications Points in front of the funnel on port & starboard sides (literally directly above where the HMG's are mounted). The initial plan was to put the secondary armament there. There is no reason why you can't fit the weapons on the P40 & P20 class. The deck fitting is the same size as the GAMBO & HMG fittings & does not require deck strengthening.

                    'Where there's smoke, there's fire!'

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                    • #11
                      I'd be inclined to disagree about the deck size of the HMG fittings.

                      As for the P20, why would you put a new weapons system on a vessel that will be decomissioned within 3 years?
                      And the P40, ammunition stowage? 12.7mm is bad enough to be lugging about on a wet deck, but 20mm is a whole other problem, again difficult to justify for a 20+ year old vessel.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #12
                        Standardisation of secondary armament within the NS, someone is aiming (excuse the pun!) to improve this situation.

                        To be mounted in area highlighted.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Dogwatch; 20 June 2006, 19:24.

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                        • #13
                          Why not stick with 12.7mm then? Common throughout the DF. OTO Melara up front, HMG on the waist, MAG on the bridge wing. Easier to store and remove for maintenance too.

                          20mm/25mm is more common as main armament on smaller vessels these days, rather than secondary armament.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • #14
                            HMG not a purely naval weapon. Sights are better & effective range is greater on Rheinmetall.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish
                              ....., why would you put a new weapons system on a vessel that will be decomissioned within 3 years?
                              .....
                              Because it can be swapped out fairly easily. If the money is there and approved, then for Gods sake buy the damn things.

                              Would you rather wait for new ships and then go looking for money just to save a few days work for the EA and the MEO?
                              No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
                              No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

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