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  • Naval Gunnery.

    Two questions. Is the turret manned or is the main gun fired remotely,also if a trawler is fired upon is a solid round or explosive round used?

  • #2
    Originally posted by parkman View Post
    Two questions. Is the turret manned or is the main gun fired remotely,also if a trawler is fired upon is a solid round or explosive round used?
    Its fired remotley but can also be fired with a guy in it.
    Not sure about the trawler question

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    • #3
      Originally posted by parkman View Post
      Two questions. Is the turret manned or is the main gun fired remotely,also if a trawler is fired upon is a solid round or explosive round used?
      The Navy use specialised anti fisheries rounds. You daft broom.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by parkman View Post
        Two questions. Is the turret manned or is the main gun fired remotely,also if a trawler is fired upon is a solid round or explosive round used?
        The turret is not manned when firing, it can only be fired from the bridge. TPT - target practice tracer or TP - target practice are used. The 76mm has never been fired in anger. When dealing with fishery scenarios, the primary armament is not used, it is normally GPMG, HMG or 20mm, firing ball ammo.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
          The 76mm has never been fired in anger.
          Did not one of the Peacocks fire on a trawler with it's 76mm that was trying to ram it?
          FMolloy
          King Monkey
          Last edited by FMolloy; 13 September 2006, 21:07.
          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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          • #6
            No, AISLING was the only ship that had a trawler ever attempt to ram it, the Sonja, back in 1986 or so.
            Last edited by Dogwatch; 14 September 2006, 08:41.

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            • #7
              19th Oct 1984..naval service admitted to 500 rounds 0f 7.62mm and or 20mm expended in the direction of the trawler..but this was not the cause of the sinking....adverse weather eventually led to the sinking.(The Irish Navy by Tom McGinty 1995)
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                19th Oct 1984..naval service admitted ....
                "Admitted"? Sounds like you're not convinced there murph...
                Meh.

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                • #9
                  That's just what they admitted to......imagine what they must have actually fired!

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                  • #10
                    The Book I have quoted from gives that as the correct amount. I 'm sure there is an ammunition account some where to verify the figures.

                    I am in no position to verify or deny this account but eye witness accounts from some of those there at the time reckon there wasn't a round left on the ship by the time the action was over...and that would be a considerable amount of ammunition..but at this stage its purely legend.Although it was only 12 months afterwards that I was informed of these 'legends'.

                    Interestingly enough the 7.62mm would have been rifle fire as pintles for single GPMGs were only fitted to Aisling....and only Aisling after this event.

                    The 20mm weapon was the oerlikon...and loading magazines was time consuming ..so its not unreasonable to assume that the figures could be factual....
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #11
                      I can't imagine why small arms fire would be directed against a trawler.I thought the purpose of opening fire was to disable the vessel.That is why I asked if solid shot was used.Surely small arms fire from a heaving ship would endanger the lives of the trawler's crew?

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                      • #12
                        The Rifle round's fired were tracer...given that there have been three other methods..lights.. siren and flags used to attract the skippers attention and intentions to board...firing tracer rounds across the bow is quite aceptable.

                        Uncovering the 20mm weapon is the next threat...again this usually has the desired effect.

                        Firing the actual weapon is one of the last resorts and rounds are first directed in front of a trawler..both TpT and tracer again to attract the skippers intention.

                        Rounds will then be fired at non accomadation or work spaces of the vessel.

                        At the ranges of engagement the case of inaccuracy is not a valid point..as ships are very stable firing platforms. sea states etc will be taken into account as there is no point trying to board a trawler in sea states that would also prevent accuarte fire.

                        Given the list of options given to the captain of a ship you can see how far down firing into a trawler actually is..and is a last resort.

                        Now take into account looking at the picture available the trawler was manouevering itself it to a position where ramming the PV was a very realistic threat.

                        At this point the firing upon the vessel became nessacary to prevent the PV from becoming a casualty.

                        Also bear in mind the frame of mind of the captain..what was the reason for the trawler avoiding detention..seeing as a couple of months previously the Marita Ann had been arrested with a large quantity of arms on board.

                        So the bigger picture is not the big angry navy firing on the defenceless fishermen. But that of captain who's suspicions have been arroused by a non complient vessel and now hostile threat to his vessel and crew.

                        The appropriate action was carried out..the Captain broke off the engagement when he felt it was right to do so..he did not cause damage to the trawler to make her unseaworthy..and took all realistic precautions to prevent loss of life on both vessels.

                        The Trawler Sonia was later lost due to bad weather..the crew were picked up by the container ship ACHAT..and were brought to Waterford.

                        Had the captain of the trawler complied with a reasonable and lawful request there would have been no need for the incident to have happened in the first place.
                        hptmurphy
                        Commander in Chief
                        Last edited by hptmurphy; 14 September 2006, 21:48. Reason: It was taken as offensive..the last line so i withdraw it.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                        • #13
                          Nice reply hptmurphy just spoiled a tiny bit by the last line.I was not moralising just asking a genuine question being ignorant of the procedures used in the application of gunfire to a situation requiring the apprehenshion of a trawler.But once again appreciate the comprehensive answer.

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                          • #14
                            ok I'llapologise to you for the last line..i just got the impression that a stance was being made against the use of firearms within given situations..see its gone..again on this point may be if the question had been phrased in a more positive term I wouldn't have felt like I was having to react..and would have posted as such.
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                            • #15
                              Goodman----agreed.

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