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    what kind of guns for the new ships for irish navy will they go down the lines of more 76mm . or can we see more in lines of defence ...

  • #2
    I'd say 76mm will be the standard platform as main armament for all future vessels.
    Its more practical than a deck crewed weapon in rough sea/weather.

    Rhein Metall seems to be the secondary of choice too. Not sure how many spare ones we have lyin around.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #3
      By the time anything new comes on line I reckon the PVs will have begun to retire already and the Rh202s will be redundant so will by default become the seconaday weapon of the new vessel if not it will be the .5 as happened with the peacocks,Niamh and Roisin pending delivery of Rh202s

      The 76mm is the primary weapon of choice and given this is the predominant weapon in the NS I would asy it will continue on any new ships.

      GPMGs will still feature along with 'Wallop' 57mm flare launcers.
      hptmurphy
      Commander in Chief
      Last edited by hptmurphy; 15 April 2009, 22:16.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #4
        yes id say that you are right on that one

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        • #5
          TBH I think you have to look at where the NS has been historically with weapons to see where it has evolved to.

          Given that up to the recent past we operated weapons that were of WW2 vintage with gunnery skillss that were developed during that era with very basic equipment that was carried through from the corvettes through the sweepers onto the PV's..Eithne was the first vessel to employ modern weapons systems and hers were some what of an anomally toward world trends at the time.
          We were forced to move on with the purchase of the peacocks with their 76mm main weapon, the Rh202 Rheinmetall is an impressive weapon although not cheap and some body took an advantage of the Germans off loading theirs so we got a chance to upgrade on the cheap.

          Nothing wrong with the GamBo, rate of fire was abit slow in comparrsion to the Rh202, but cost wise it was a good refit for the PV's as the older Oerlikons were of 1940s vintage with the magazines causing major problem. worked on a clock work spring and were at the end of their lives, the guns in many cases were immaculate and even in 1986 i remember drawing a brand new one from stores still in its packing grease.

          There were two types of oerlikon in service which to the uneducated eye wasn't that obvious, the main difference being in the recoil spring.The American one had a square cross section as opposed to the UK built ones which had a round cross section, the former being the easier to strip.

          Ammunition wasn't a major problem but interchangibilty of ammo between the various 20mm 's was. the older weapons had a shorter brass cartridge as opposed to the alloy one in use in the GamBos and Rh202s, which in itself caused supply problems as this ammo wasn't interchangable either.

          The older weapon also had 181 working parts as opposed to the five groups in a Rh202 making it easier to train gunners.

          On the SG3 it took less time to teach all roles on the Bofors L40/60, maintaince etc than it did to teach stripping the oerlikon..have to say I loved that weapon..real work of engineering art.

          So looking at it retrospectively gunner has evolved hugely over the past twenty years given we had given the previous 40 in total stagnation.

          What we have now is as well proven as what we had twenty years ago and still has a considerable life expectancy. so from that I wouldn't expect any major changes in the format of the primary and secondary weapons in use on board near future Naval Service vessels.

          Probably far beyond what you wanted to know.
          hptmurphy
          Commander in Chief
          Last edited by hptmurphy; 15 April 2009, 22:34.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #6
            The choice of 57mm for eithne was actually a good one, and perhaps better than 76mm, as you say it was forced upon us by default. The american navy and coast guard for example are moving from the 76mm to 57mm.

            The only possible change is that we might see a CIWS fitted to the EPV if it serves overseas, or they might move to remote control weapons for the 12.7mm, in the sea protector version.

            But then again, best wait to see what the tenders for the EPV comes back like

            I remember visiting the naval base in the sumer of 1986, and seeing a group of trainees being lectured on the Oerlikons, always remember the instructor turning to the class and saying that despite the interuption, they'd better remember all the parts when the lecture was finished.
            Last edited by paul g; 15 April 2009, 23:09.

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            • #7
              Me..I was on a gunnery course in summer of '86.One was run in may June..the other august and july six weeks..started the firts one in june but was invalided off after the bofors and had to catch up in the second one,,,Bofors and oerlikon fired for the second course on Aisling and then posted to Eithne were I never used the 40/60 or Oerlikon again..went straight to Rh"202 and recieved my training from Golden Rivet. Were about four of us as O/Sea qualified to use it Fired it a bout half a dozen times ..awesome weapon...

              57mm on Eithne had one major draw back as the autoloaders had to be reloaded by hand from the mag lift and there was only about 50 rds RU ammo available as opposed to the carosuel inuse on the 76mm. Golden Rivet being more qualified than me on the 57mm would be the expert

              The %&mm turret had to be crewed although could be fired remotely from the ops room and possiblyyfrom the TDS on each brindge wing if local control was switched over.

              As a weapon system I could not fault the 57mm as it was good..but it was army ordnace who purcahsed it and not the NS first choice.

              the newer version is even more capabalbe but since we have tended toward 76mm I'd say we will have it for quite some time
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #8
                I visited Haulbowline in July 1986, and the instructor in the gunnery class ( which you were probably in) made a deep and abiding impression on me. Got shown around by an officer, Cormac something or other, who was serving on the Banba at the time, he told me he changed his shirt four times a day, so that he could pick up ratings on their dress, the other lasting impression.

                Funny old world isn't it.

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                • #9
                  navy

                  yes i beleive that officer is a lt cdr now still the same

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                  • #10
                    Rynne, most likely.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Certainly wasn't serving on the Banba at the time as she had been decomissioned and sold for scrap two years earlier.

                      Officers didn't pick us up on our dress in those days as most of us were in rags...lol.

                      Funnily enough the both the PO and LS instructing on that course had undergone their gunnery training for the minesweepers in the 70's in Whale Island...which is the nirvana of Naval Gunners.Fantastic instructors and were still instructing the same weapons 25 years later.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #12
                        Could have been the Fola?, it is after all over twenty years ago, it was an Old Ton Classand it was tied up, awaiting disposal, was told that the next time it set sail would be to the scrap yard.

                        Anyway, it was my one and only visit to Cork.

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                        • #13
                          Fola and Grainne most likely and they did sail again, but it was in january of 1988 indeed to scrap in Spain under tow.

                          they were twoed outr seperatly the Fola going a very very miserable sunday morning and I was on duty and took some photos which were amongst the last ever to be taken of an Irish Minesweeper.

                          Even under tow to scrap they still looked handsome. The naval association website has some nice pictures of the sweepers and there have been some nice ones psoted here.

                          I had a jolly on one while in recruits, the Grainne. Made it out as far as Roches point and was towed back... the ignomy of my first ever day at sea..and her last.

                          I'll ask him which one it was ....
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                            what kind of guns for the new ships for irish navy will they go down the lines of more 76mm . or can we see more in lines of defence ...
                            Main gun in or about 76mm gives a bit of reach and support fire. The current philosophy is to include a deterrent or a means of dealing with swarm or mass attacks. The RN Type 23's have added two 30mm auto guns AND on same mount a new multirole Thales Missile system with 5 X 10+/- Kg missiles. Thet are surface to surface, surface to air, and in Helos- air to surface. It was successfully tested last week in the Irish Sea against a radio controlled boat. The missile can also be shoulder fired. The naval version is laser beam riding- Range 6km-speed 1.5mach. Principle use- boats- drones-aircraft.
                            The system has the Naval name of Martlet MRM. They have ordered 1000 over, we could order 10 mounts and 150 rounds.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                              Main gun in or about 76mm gives a bit of reach and support fire. The current philosophy is to include a deterrent or a means of dealing with swarm or mass attacks. The RN Type 23's have added two 30mm auto guns AND on same mount a new multirole Thales Missile system with 5 X 10+/- Kg missiles. Thet are surface to surface, surface to air, and in Helos- air to surface. It was successfully tested last week in the Irish Sea against a radio controlled boat. The missile can also be shoulder fired. The naval version is laser beam riding- Range 6km-speed 1.5mach. Principle use- boats- drones-aircraft.
                              The system has the Naval name of Martlet MRM. They have ordered 1000 over, we could order 10 mounts and 150 rounds.
                              There is no doubt that the Political world is becoming more aggressively unstable, with a capacity to create hot spots overnight. Sea trade is very vulnerable to disruption, as even in packed waterways ships can be picked off by armed fast boats. We may be part of that deterrent and should arm our ships accordingly. Replace 20mm with 30mm and add the Martlet suite.

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