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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I am only asking why didn't we react to the sightings as outlined in your posts.
    That indeed is the question. That the sightings took place however is an irrefutable matter of fact.

    Comment


    • Most likely scenario is that no-one was watching and/or investigating.

      The agency responsible does not have the personnel or the platforms.

      The agency that wants responsibility has the platforms but does not have the personnel and is not being allowed by government to have the responsibility.

      It is a perfect example of how Ireland cannot get its act together in relation to the sea between all its various government arms and agencies.

      something something Sea Blindness - Empire building something something

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
        That indeed is the question. That the sightings took place however is an irrefutable matter of fact.
        It is irrefutable that the sightings have NOT been proven. They are Not referenced in the MCIB report on the grounding of ALTA. Technically in official circles they don't exist.

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        • Alright, perhaps this wont be useless for position and scale:



          Now the main barrier to me trying to spot the Alta before it ran aground is that I don't access to historical AIS data, or the slightest notion of the drift that took it aground - but if I did, I'd note the timestamp of the Sentinel imagery and take a snapshot of AIS data +/- 5 minutes and then look for any bright spots in the projected area that don't have a corresponding AIS ping.

          That could be/should be an automated process running in the background for the CG/NS etc.
          Last edited by pym; 10 March 2021, 01:47.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pym View Post
            Alright, perhaps this wont be useless for position and scale:



            Now the main barrier to me trying to spot the Alta before it ran aground is that I don't access to historical AIS data, or the slightest notion of the drift that took it aground - but if I did, I'd note the timestamp of the Sentinel imagery and take a snapshot of AIS data +/- 5 minutes and then look for any bright spots in the projected area that don't have a corresponding AIS ping.

            That could be/should be an automated process running in the background for the CG/NS etc.
            There is a huge difference in a scan of a large geographic area with un -focusable picture and light blobs of objects at sea and a required crisp picture with Named vessels (AIS) and positional data for an intercept. The Sentinel picture has focus at a high altitude .

            Comment


            • Yes, there is a huge difference - however I didn't say it could be positively ID'd from Sentinel SAR imagery alone.

              What the above demonstrates is that the MV Alta was visible as a 70-80m "blob", even on the free, publicly available, unclassified Sentinel SAR imagery.

              It taken by itself could be assumed to just another ship at sea, however, you don't just utilise one source - you utilise multiple sources - basically it would be a program saying:

              1: When imagery of X area is available, highlight probable ship returns.
              2: From probable ship returns - compare these with AIS data received via terrestrial and space based receivers within these same areas sent +/- 5 minutes from the time the SAR imagery was taken.
              3: Highlight uncorrelated targets.
              4: Make a decision - on identifying that 70-80m blob at sea, without a correlated AIS return - do you do nothing, or do you bring other resources to bear on the target, be they ships, aircraft or other space based systems in order to try and get a positive identification.

              It is akin to the Casa flying at 16,000 feet over Tipperary and noticing a radar return from a vessel 100 miles west, which looks roughly 70-80m long, the operator checks but notes there is no corresponding AIS data.

              It is just a blob, on a radar screen. It is then compared with other data. However it remains uncorrelated. The operator then has to make a call - ignore it, or do something about it.

              The difference with my example, is that it would be all automated until the decision part.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                There is a huge difference in a scan of a large geographic area with un -focusable picture and light blobs of objects at sea and a required crisp picture with Named vessels (AIS) and positional data for an intercept. The Sentinel picture has focus at a high altitude .
                It’s a tool in the box that could be used.

                You fuse you sensors (generally multiple radars, AIS, FV transponders etc) into a RMP.... satellite data could be also be fused into it

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pym View Post
                  1: When imagery of X area is available, highlight probable ship returns.
                  2: From probable ship returns - compare these with AIS data received via terrestrial and space based receivers within these same areas sent +/- 5 minutes from the time the SAR imagery was taken.
                  3: Highlight uncorrelated targets.
                  *. Automatically fill in online form requesting tasking of Satellite Spot image with 1m resolution (or higher) to detect, classify and identify uncorrelated vessel
                  * Look up IMO Global ship registry for similar vessels

                  4: Human makes a decision - do nothing, log event and move on, or task platform (ship, aircraft, coastal CCTV/Radar, or other remote sensor) with further attempts at identification.
                  Added to your task sequence.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                    Added to your task sequence.
                    The task at this time is to establish a Recognised Maritime Picture with sufficient capability to take other Pictures, to make when required, a Common Operational Picture. This would require us to access the air and sub-sea pictures either by friendly link or our own resources. The current Picture at the FMC is not owned by the navy and now, may not even be manned by the NAVY. There are RMP outfits available on the defence market, Norway being a good source, with compiling your needs and supplying training. For an IMO or even Lloyds register of ships you have to know the name of the ship and it's age bracket. Registers are issued every two years.
                    The Naval RMP must not be in confrontation with SFPA or the ICG.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      The task at this time is to establish a Recognised Maritime Picture with sufficient capability to take other Pictures, to make when required, a Common Operational Picture. This would require us to access the air and sub-sea pictures either by friendly link or our own resources. The current Picture at the FMC is not owned by the navy and now, may not even be manned by the NAVY. There are RMP outfits available on the defence market, Norway being a good source, with compiling your needs and supplying training. For an IMO or even Lloyds register of ships you have to know the name of the ship and it's age bracket. Registers are issued every two years.
                      The Naval RMP must not be in confrontation with SFPA or the ICG.
                      There is a NS RMP

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        There is a NS RMP
                        At least that is good news. a pity we missed the ALTA.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          There is a NS RMP
                          I notice that the departmental management of the Irish Coast Guard are in discussions with EU Maritime group to form an Integrated Maritime Surface Picture to be named MARSUR picture. We are being bedevilled by too many witches dancing around the same pot.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            I notice that the departmental management of the Irish Coast Guard are in discussions with EU Maritime group to form an Integrated Maritime Surface Picture to be named MARSUR picture. We are being bedevilled by too many witches dancing around the same pot.
                            You mean they are trying to join the NS

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                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              You mean they are trying to join the NS
                              Most of the Coast Guard were in the NS at some point.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                You mean they are trying to join the NS
                                Note your comment. However the mission of the naval service should include a recognised maritime picture as it is their implied task to keep us safe at sea from armed attack, terrorist incidents, certain illegal activities in fisheries and smuggling. It also is a fact that as the naval service is the only agency with firepower at sea and need total awareness of their environment with sufficient data ashore to direct ships on task. The CG may have aspirations but until that matter is sorted out Defence and it's obligations remain with those at sea.

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