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  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

    yes, but the prob here is that the minister is not actually making the decisions.
    It isn’t hard to steer a Minister when the majority (through no fault of theirs) know little about their brief, they also depend on CS to advice.

    remember there was push a few years back to get more business people into the CS, why? Groupthink

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

      It isn’t hard to steer a Minister when the majority (through no fault of theirs) know little about their brief, they also depend on CS to advice.

      remember there was push a few years back to get more business people into the CS, why? Groupthink
      In my experience the entry of those from business into the Civil Service has not worked well.
      Micromanagement combined with lack of experience in their particular field can create under performance in their department.
      Civil servants look to management for the benefit of experience for guidance. When management do not have that experience they become superfluous.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • The most recent Nationwide (Mon 6th) and Wednesdays episode are dedicated to the Naval service. Worth a watch but let down by some poor research on behalf of RTE.
        available on the RTE player.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Watch all your favourite TV shows Live or On Demand on your PC, smartphone or tablet for free.


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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            The most recent Nationwide (Mon 6th) and Wednesdays episode are dedicated to the Naval service. Worth a watch but let down by some poor research on behalf of RTE.
            available on the RTE player.
            On a more comparative level the Annual Seaforth Naval Review is about to be published. it covers all Navies with emphasis on Aviation, weaponry, onboard and offboard countermeasures. It looks at some navies in depth-this year Sri Lanka, Spain and Royal Navy. It's an enthusiast's GOTO guide.

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            • BAE Systems on 1st OCT 2021 began delivery of a new programme to support the Royal Navy in Portsmouth. It is in partnership with US Company KBR, all working alongside MOD in Portsmouth. There are various aspects, one to deliver a 5 year Future Maritime Support Programme alongside for RN, another to deliver the Ship Engineering Delivery and Management contract at Portsmouth NB, and Hard Facilities Management and Alongside Service contract at Portsmouth. Contracts are valued at £ 1.3 billion. BAE have transformed Portsmouth NB reducing emissions by 65% over the past decade. They have developed various dock areas to specialise maintenance for the two CV's, another for Destroyers. Installed a large 68metre crane, and a 1.5MW solar farm and a 3MW Battery storage and multiple charging points for electrical vehicles, and a harbour Radar VTS system. They amalgamated all workshops under one roof to drive efficiencies and improved overall security. They hope to be carbon neutral by 2050.

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                It is irrefutable that the sightings have NOT been proven. They are Not referenced in the MCIB report on the grounding of ALTA. Technically in official circles they don't exist.
                The MCIB report is misleading and factually incorrect according to this submission

                https://assets.gov.ie/194535/9ceb577...2e6f8d3fb7.pdf

                IRLCODF submission no. 351

                DERELICT MERCHANT VESSEL – MV ALTA Such is the lack of maritime security or situation awareness in Ireland that a derelict 77 metre merchant ship can pass through Ireland’s maritime domain before grounding on the shoreline east of Cork Harbour. The Marine Casualty Investigation Board (MCIB) report on the MV Alta5 describes why the vessel was not reported by the Coast Guard or NS as the vessel was not transmitting electronically. It further incorrectly comments that the tracking of such a vessel is not available through EU agency systems such as the European Maritime Safety Agency (EMSA) SafeSeas Net GUI (SEG), however this is an aside. Although the report recommends the establishment of a working group to establish proposals for identifying, tracking and interdiction of derelict ships, it is outside the MCIB report to pose the question, how could this happen? 4 Dept of Transport Toursim & Sport. 2019. The Irish Coast Guard. Accessed March 16, 2021. https://www.gov.ie/en/policyinformat...h-coast-guard/. 5Marine Casualty Investigation Board. 2020. Investigation Into An Incident Involving The Grounding Of The Vessel 'MV ALTA' At Ballyandreen Bay, Ballycotton, Co Cor, 16 February 2020 page 12. MCIB Report, Dublin: MCIB.
                Last edited by TangoSierra; 7 December 2021, 14:43.

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                • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post

                  The MCIB report is misleading and factually incorrect according to this submission

                  https://assets.gov.ie/194535/9ceb577...2e6f8d3fb7.pdf

                  IRLCODF submission no. 351
                  There needs to be a joint approach and chain of information dissemination when known unmanned floating obstructions occur. The Alta was rendered derelict when the USCG took off her crew in the Caribbean area. She was later sighted by an RN vessel in a specific position. There was opportunity then to deal with the vessel. Much later when a dark object showed on EMSA surveillance, the reasonable thing to do was to investigate by the adjacent nation using overfly or surface investigation. There are too many rigid boundaries between agencies, diluting acknowledgement of responsibility and leading to nothing being done by those with apparent assets.

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                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                    There needs to be a joint approach and chain of information dissemination when known unmanned floating obstructions occur. The Alta was rendered derelict when the USCG took off her crew in the Caribbean area. She was later sighted by an RN vessel in a specific position. There was opportunity then to deal with the vessel. Much later when a dark object showed on EMSA surveillance, the reasonable thing to do was to investigate by the adjacent nation using overfly or surface investigation. There are too many rigid boundaries between agencies, diluting acknowledgement of responsibility and leading to nothing being done by those with apparent assets.
                    Or give the only seagoing State agency with enforcement powers the responsibility (and resources) and stop the empire building, as they have done with drugs.

                    or some kind of joint centre. SAR (including ARCC, MRCC, SFPA, AC etc). Could be compartmentalised if necessary.

                    Those dark vessels could be like the Alta, could be drug smugglers, fishing vessels, vessels dumping at sea, a vessel in need of assistance, a warship or a “research” vessel (for example doing “research” on submarine cables).
                    Last edited by DeV; 9 December 2021, 11:47.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                      Or give the only seagoing State agency with enforcement powers the responsibility (and resources) and stop the empire building, as they have done with drugs.

                      or some kind of joint centre. SAR (including ARCC, MRCC, SFPA, AC etc). Could be compartmentalised if necessary.

                      Those dark vessels could be like the Alta, could be drug smugglers, fishing vessels, vessels dumping at sea, a vessel in need of assistance, a warship or a “research” vessel (for example doing “research” on submarine cables).
                      The NS are not the only Seagoing State Agency with enforcement powers in relation to drugs. Indeed the Joint approach in this area has brought great success.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                        The NS are not the only Seagoing State Agency with enforcement powers in relation to drugs. Indeed the Joint approach in this area has brought great success.
                        true actually, apologies

                        Primary seagoing agency

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                          true actually, apologies

                          Primary seagoing agency
                          I think you are actually more right that wrong. Remember other agencies with enforcement duty can only do so at an instance of opportunity. Interceptions usually have taken place on entering our waters and usually became a Naval task. This is especially true for miscellaneous vessels not engaged in legal commerce as would be in the case of a cargo vessel caught in port. with hidden contraband.

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                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            . Much later when a dark object showed on EMSA surveillance, the reasonable thing to do was to investigate by the adjacent nation using overfly or surface investigation. .
                            That would require the agency with responsibility for Maritime Surveillance (Irish Coast Guard) to look at the screen and see it in the first place.

                            Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Simon Coveney, TD, commented that “increasing maritime situational and domain awareness is paramount in promoting a more inclusive approach to maritime development in delivering both the EU Blue Growth Strategy (2012) and Ireland’s Integrated Marine Plan (Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth) launched in 2012. Space based systems”, he said, “are a key component of an integrated and sophisticated maritime surveillance network”.


                            Great soundbite with F-all substance behind it from an Irish Context

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                            • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post

                              That would require the agency with responsibility for Maritime Surveillance (Irish Coast Guard) to look at the screen and see it in the first place.





                              Great soundbite with F-all substance behind it from an Irish Context
                              And we don’t even have to do the heavy lifting

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                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                                And we don’t even have to do the heavy lifting
                                The Irish Coast Guard would be responsible for SAR, Maritime Communications, Salvage, Pollution. Under Maritime Security Act 2004 the behaviour and transiting of shipping as permitted falls to the oversight of the PDF and Gardai who can arrest or detain without warrant for implied transgressions. If Emsa have positional information on ships or something big floating without transponder emissions that info should be passed to Naval authorities for investigation under the Act 2004. If the Navy already have a screen with satellite info, then they should always act.

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