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Irish Naval Mediterranean EU rescue patrols

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    If the people have been taken off already I don't see why Ireland should have a problem with sinking them to prevent their reuse to be honest.
    i would imagine that a barely floating, unmanned vessel in busy shipping lanes was a danger to all mariners, and that a consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

    with a 76mm gun.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
      i would imagine that a barely floating, unmanned vessel in busy shipping lanes was a danger to all mariners, and that a consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

      with a 76mm gun.
      Sounds good to me, hope they take some film of it, though then the crusties might get upset...

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      • #18
        The Law of the Sea requires all able to render aid to do so in order to save life.
        The Law of the Sea third edition by Churchill and Lowe makes no mention of the subject.I think its a moral obligation as opposed to actual Law.

        The clarification must be on what if someone claims refugee status while on board
        Yeah thought this might be an issue, given the ship is seen as being sovereign property and an extension of Ireland the state.

        consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

        with a 76mm gun.
        Wouldn't be the first time, navigation hazard removal is well within the remit of the NS, LE Eithnes trip to Argentina gives some footage of same . Took part in some it myself on Eithne back in the 80's
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #19
          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          The Law of the Sea third edition by Churchill and Lowe makes no mention of the subject.I think its a moral obligation as opposed to actual Law..
          UNCLOS requires it
          SOLAS obliges you

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          • #20
            Unfortunately we will (along with everyone else who sends a ship) probably just end up contributing to the problem if we follow the line currently set out by every brain dead EU leader which is providing anything less than an express ferry service to Europe makes you heartless xenophobic right-wing bastard. The way we're going, hundreds more Africans are going to end up drowning in the Med by the time the year is out. In these situations you have three options:

            1. Completely open up the borders to whoever wants to come.
            2. Do the same thing we are doing now which not that different to option one except we hold them in a camp for a few months before leaving them roam free in the EU.
            3. Blockade the ports where the boats are coming from or tow back all boats trying to reach Europe illegally.

            Well you can't follow option one for obvious reasons and option two just encourages smugglers to cram more people onto flimsy craft and ship them to Europe. Option three is the only option that has proven effective in modern times. Before a leader with the balls to ignore the more hysterical elements of the media came to power, Australia had the exact same problem as we face now. Then Abbott was elected and ordered the navy to turn around every boat they found trying to reach Australia and whala, boats stopped, illegal immigrants stopped drowning and people could stop worrying about some unsavoury characters slipping into the country unnoticed. There are never going to be enough navy boats to pluck everyone out of the Med so unless we are going to actually stop the boats leaving Libya, then don't bother going at all. Sometimes tough love saves lives.

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            • #21
              UNCLOS requires it
              SOLAS obliges you
              and none of these are unilaterally ratified.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • #22
                Minefields , that'l stop them .
                Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by tomh903 View Post
                  option two just encourages smugglers to cram more people onto flimsy craft and ship them to Europe.
                  Absolutely, it will be open season for all and sundry and it will become a selling point for traffickers. Just head in that direction and the navy will pick you up and take you the rest of the way. Far from actually sorting the problem out it will compound it. Fair enough provide assistance to those in need of food, water, medical attention, but do it on route back to their point or origin. Once back in that territories waters, sorry chaps your on your own.

                  Essentially all we will be doing is assisting in providing safe transport and attending to the welfare needs of untold numbers while they are in transit, and have to watch those numbers increase as a result of it. The issue needs to be dealt with at source and unfortunately that's what our illustrious politicians are refusing to do.
                  We travel not for trafficking alone,
                  By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                  For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                  We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

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                  • #24
                    Send Eithne. Case made for an EPV as a replacement at a single stroke.

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                    • #25
                      Her former helideck can be covered in the marquee that's usually used for functions aboard. Only a short walk from the waterline access.
                      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                      German 2: Private? I am a general!
                      German 1: That is the bad news.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                        Her former helideck can be covered in the marquee that's usually used for functions aboard. Only a short walk from the waterline access.
                        We may need to think about this project more. People trafficking, especially out of North African Region is a complex business with many actors. Globally 16million people have migrated and 33million people are internally displaced in countries with fragmented political systems or at war. The supply is therefore, in relative terms, endless. Damaging the transport at point of rescue, whether near shore ,or on approach of a rescue craft is part of the conditions of paid passage. Those sent on the short journey between Turkish territory and Greece are told to puncture their inflatables near shore so that they have to be rescued. There is no solution to the advantage of the EU or the migrants themselves. The only solution is stability and peace in their own countries and an ability to adapt to climate change in the long term. Looking at world migration maps many migrates die in transit including in the Americas and the Far East with Australia. The initial action has to be stop the boats and render aid in the areas of migrant assembly before they embark into the unknown.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FMP View Post
                          Absolutely, it will be open season for all and sundry and it will become a selling point for traffickers. Just head in that direction and the navy will pick you up and take you the rest of the way. Far from actually sorting the problem out it will compound it. Fair enough provide assistance to those in need of food, water, medical attention, but do it on route back to their point or origin. Once back in that territories waters, sorry chaps your on your own.

                          Essentially all we will be doing is assisting in providing safe transport and attending to the welfare needs of untold numbers while they are in transit, and have to watch those numbers increase as a result of it. The issue needs to be dealt with at source and unfortunately that's what our illustrious politicians are refusing to do.
                          You can't return them to Libya if they have escaped there to claim refugee status

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            We may need to think about this project more. People trafficking, especially out of North African Region is a complex business with many actors. Globally 16million people have migrated and 33million people are internally displaced in countries with fragmented political systems or at war. The supply is therefore, in relative terms, endless. Damaging the transport at point of rescue, whether near shore ,or on approach of a rescue craft is part of the conditions of paid passage. Those sent on the short journey between Turkish territory and Greece are told to puncture their inflatables near shore so that they have to be rescued. There is no solution to the advantage of the EU or the migrants themselves. The only solution is stability and peace in their own countries and an ability to adapt to climate change in the long term. Looking at world migration maps many migrates die in transit including in the Americas and the Far East with Australia. The initial action has to be stop the boats and render aid in the areas of migrant assembly before they embark into the unknown.
                            My thoughts exactly, mentioned on another thread. Long term, stabilising the failed states from where they are fleeing is the only solution. But Africa seems unable to do this, and Europe is unwilling, while the USA would just be unwelcome.
                            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                            German 2: Private? I am a general!
                            German 1: That is the bad news.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The trouble is that the decision and possible action chain is contaminated by National exigencies. Such as imminent elections, financial crisis in Greece, and general meltdown in relations in the Middle East and Asia Minor. The potential interlinking of moral obligation and damaging current social fabric is reminiscent of opening Pandora's Box. The crux is those that implement decisions ie Navies ,receive their instructions from politically motivated amateurs who forget to look at consequences and collateral effects. The old adage applies whatever you do , do no harm. In this case we hand it to the UN and a committee from the involved nations.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                                Her former helideck can be covered in the marquee that's usually used for functions aboard. Only a short walk from the waterline access.
                                Exactly my thinking. Plenty of space for chemical toilets etc outside hangar. Easy to secure also. Convert the hangar as a medical facility/distribution point for bottled water/food.

                                There is simply not enough free deck space on the new OPV design to perform the rescue role. Perfect for counter trafficing patrols though. Still, that flight deck deemed unnecessary by some would be useful for both roles.

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