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Its has been proven time and again that western intervention to solve problems in other countries is a long drawn out costly affair that more or less sorts nothing especially while on the rebound from Sadaam Hussein , Ghadaffi etc
Ghadaffi in his own right provided this and probably would have been more effective policing it that any outside agency ever will, despite the methods.
To an extent I agree. Ghadaffi kept control, but it was a personal control. What we are seeing in Libya now is the result of him completely destroying the state during his rule and replacing it with his personal household security force at large, and deals with local tribal leaders on an ad-hoc basis for different areas. After 40 years of him, there is no civil society and no government structure, local or national, that could exist apart from or beyond Ghadaffi. It was a disaster waiting to happen at whatever point or in whatever way he left the scene, unless an equally determined, powerful, and supported son had taken over the personal kingdom.
Libya was always going the way of anarchy post-ghadaffi and is a clear case for direct intervention.
Which of course brings its own problems and the west has no good track record in that regard.
We could go the brutally pragmatic way: occupy the coast to solve the immediate issue, then split the country into areas where we promote the most powerful local group able to run that area and give them the means to sustain their power o the basis that they solve our problem. Realpolitik at its 19th century, or Putin, best.
Try nation building, and risk uniting the country only insofar as they want rid of us, take the bodycount hit and try to leave behind a functional government but risk another Iraq, or Afghanistan, do nothing and wait to see how long before someone unites the country or it splits into three parts, hoping the Libyans sort out the problem in a timeframe we can accept...which is what we are doing now.
There is no good solution.
The problem that the return-em argument misses is that without a state to deal with in Libya, we can only return refugees to its shores by first occupying the ports we wish to do this through.
The problem that the return-em argument misses is that without a state to deal with in Libya, we can only return refugees to its shores by first occupying the ports we wish to do this through.
Try nation building, and risk uniting the country only insofar as they want rid of us, take the bodycount hit and try to leave behind a functional government but risk another Iraq, or Afghanistan,
Hasn't happened in any of the two mentioned despite 15 years of support , no reason it should anytime soon. In the current world political climate there is no reason it should work on another failed state.
So if you want to secure an area you can't depend on the indigenous population. Now bearing in mind Europe is the primary recipient of migrants, the Europe has to intervene or suffer the consequence of which we are have a very good insight to at the moment.
I'm not anti immigration and would gladly welcome all these people with open arms if we could offer them that which need and if they were all bone fide refugees fleeing turmoil or persecution, but the reality is they are not all what they seem nor can we support them all and if their domestics issues can't be fixed these are only the tip of the iceberg.
EUFOR must protect Europes boundaries to prevent meltdown.
Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
Is it time for the colonies to return to being colonies, if not under an "occupying power", then an EU mandate? I think the main objections would come from the liberals in Europe, and the corrupt in the countries involved, entering into an(other) unholy alliance. The majority of the population in both would stand to gain.
I avoid saying a UN mandate as the object is to avoid mismanagement and corruption, and whatever the EU might suffer from, the UN would be 10 times worse.
'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
He died that's all. It was his unlucky night. http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html
Kinda.... If you cant govern yourself and provide for your people, we will smash you under foot and bring freedom with our guns
"He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
"No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."
Kinda.... If you cant govern yourself and provide for your people, we will smash you under foot and bring freedom with our guns
I know " something must be done" is cliched ,in most cases, but surely not this one!! Looking at the "rescued" faces of the many young children leaving the LE Niamh I note a deep sadness and bewilderment of children not understanding death or their experiences of the last few days of "Paradise Lost". The mainly Middle Eastern wars are having a demonic effect which must become a WORLD responsibility. If that is Europe or the UN then the time to act is now and at source.
Its all well and good talking about turning every boat around or going back to Africa and taking over their governance again but its never going to happen unless a European leader wishes to spend the rest of his/her career being hounded by the liberals at every turn e.g the UK media and lefty MP's spending the whole of yesterday trying to make it out that David Cameron thinks the migrants are insects because he used the word "swarm".
Abbot stopped the boats coming within months of taking office but none of our spineless European leaders are interested in taking actual action to stop the crisis, they are too afraid of being crucified by the lefties.
A specialist team has flown out to Sicily to offer counselling to crew members on LÉ Niamh, who have been given a four-day break from migrant rescue operations.
I know " something must be done" is cliched ,in most cases, but surely not this one!! Looking at the "rescued" faces of the many young children leaving the LE Niamh I note a deep sadness and bewilderment of children not understanding death or their experiences of the last few days of "Paradise Lost". The mainly Middle Eastern wars are having a demonic effect which must become a WORLD responsibility. If that is Europe or the UN then the time to act is now and at source.
Looking at the chaos caused by the ISIL jihadists it seems to me that their sect within the Moslem faith is the principle ingredient for their extreme malevolent behavior towards non-moslems and Moslems who are not Sunnis. The amount of arms and money at their disposal could be because there is a benefactor who is using their campaign to gain control of the Middle East while the oil money is still there. My culprit is the Theocratic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia whose own internal laws mirrors those being inflicted by ISIL.
Looking at the chaos caused by the ISIL jihadists it seems to me that their sect within the Moslem faith is the principle ingredient for their extreme malevolent behavior towards non-moslems and Moslems who are not Sunnis. The amount of arms and money at their disposal could be because there is a benefactor who is using their campaign to gain control of the Middle East while the oil money is still there. My culprit is the Theocratic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia whose own internal laws mirrors those being inflicted by ISIL.
Much of the Arms at their disposal are arms taken from the Iraqi army whom they overran in jig time, the collapse of that institution catapulted a band of irregulars into what they are today.
As for funding, they've so much Syrian oil under their control, they hardly need much external support.Last I heard they had a cash pile of 10 billion dollars.
As for the Saudi's, the biggest problem I have with them is the support they've given the nasty Wahabbi sect, It's their nasty sixth century interpretation of Islam that has infused the Taliban, ISIS and Al quaida.This they've done to shore up the Al Saud regime, and to balance Iranian hegemony, and the rest of the middle east has paid the price.
I know " something must be done" is cliched ,in most cases, but surely not this one!! Looking at the "rescued" faces of the many young children leaving the LE Niamh I note a deep sadness and bewilderment of children not understanding death or their experiences of the last few days of "Paradise Lost". The mainly Middle Eastern wars are having a demonic effect which must become a WORLD responsibility. If that is Europe or the UN then the time to act is now and at source.
In today's Sunday Independent Graeme Lamb quotes David Petraeus asking his masters during the last stages of the Iraqi Regime change " So, tell me, how does this end? No one knew and the country collapsed into sectarian conflict. He feels ISIL can be defeated but not without boots on the ground and some of those boots must be Arab boots. He wants their propaganda countered and their misdeeds highlighted to the local populations. He also wants a Marshall Plan for the areas in conflict to repair, build, educate, house, feed, and generally restore normal commerce. The article is worth a read and mirrors some previous contributions of the members
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