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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    UN Arms Embargo, . But the Italians are never going to do that as it suits them to have Turkey supply arms to Libya.
    Interesting, the Italian Navy have a presence in the Gulf of Guinea and intervened to prevent MV TORM ALEXANDER being boarded by pirates on 7th November. They launched their helo, who used bursts from their door mounted HMG to stitch a deterrent pattern across the pirates fast boat. The Italians are part of an EU Defence strategy in 6000nm of African coastal regions from Angola northwards. I think I saw Torm Alexander in Whitegate some time ago.

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    UN Arms Embargo, what embargo? It might have been agreed in New York but in reality it means nothing and no-one is going to enforce it. The only thing will be some dressing to say "look we are enforcing an arms embargo".

    Jan 2020: French carrier CdG spotted a Turkish cargo ship delivering armoured vehicles to Tripoli, it was escorted by a Turkish frigate; action taken: NONE
    Mar 2020: Another shipment of armoured vehicles to Tripoli from Turkey and this time to make sure no-one stopped them it was escorted by 2 Turkish frigates; action taken: NONE

    I am all for enforcing an arm embargo in order to force a political solution to the problems of Libya, but then everyone have to face the consequences. Those breaking the arms embargo are not some back-street eastern European arms dealer, they are states that are shipping the illegal arms. If Turkey continues to ship arms escorted by warships then any warship that tries to halt that shipment must be prepared for the use of deadly force if necessary. But the Italians are never going to do that as it suits them to have Turkey supply arms to Libya.
    There you go. Afaik it was a Security Council decision which includes Russia and others. Russian interests are supplying stuff to Hafter. The members of the SC should put together the force to enforce Their embargo and call the Turk intervention out. The Turks have become very Asian in the last year over refugees which has led to a worsening humanitarian crisis on European borders. Conceding challenges to UN embargoes makes it more difficult to intervene.

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  • EUFighter
    replied
    UN Arms Embargo, what embargo? It might have been agreed in New York but in reality it means nothing and no-one is going to enforce it. The only thing will be some dressing to say "look we are enforcing an arms embargo".

    Jan 2020: French carrier CdG spotted a Turkish cargo ship delivering armoured vehicles to Tripoli, it was escorted by a Turkish frigate; action taken: NONE
    Mar 2020: Another shipment of armoured vehicles to Tripoli from Turkey and this time to make sure no-one stopped them it was escorted by 2 Turkish frigates; action taken: NONE

    I am all for enforcing an arm embargo in order to force a political solution to the problems of Libya, but then everyone have to face the consequences. Those breaking the arms embargo are not some back-street eastern European arms dealer, they are states that are shipping the illegal arms. If Turkey continues to ship arms escorted by warships then any warship that tries to halt that shipment must be prepared for the use of deadly force if necessary. But the Italians are never going to do that as it suits them to have Turkey supply arms to Libya.

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    People may have been seen as the main focus but Op Sophia also contributed to enforcing the UN arms embargo (since 2016) and oil embargo (since 2017)
    https://www.operationsophia.eu/about-us/
    I take your point that there was a UN ARMS EMBARGO but few, and not the Irish ships were directly involved in military intervention to seize or stop arms smuggling. The EU describe OP IRINI as a new oeration to enforce the UN Arms Embargo . It is possible that surveillance and info for other assets at the hard edge were being passed on. This will be a direct intervention by EUFORMED.

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    But augmented by searching ships suspected of arms smuggling and illicit trade in POL. Sophia was more disrupting people trafficking.
    People may have been seen as the main focus but Op Sophia also contributed to enforcing the UN arms embargo (since 2016) and oil embargo (since 2017)
    https://www.operationsophia.eu/about-us/

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    In other words the same as Op Sophia
    But augmented by searching ships suspected of arms smuggling and illicit trade in POL. Sophia was more disrupting people trafficking.

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    This Operation is to enforce the UN arms embargo on LIBYA through direct implementation at Sea using Aerial, Satellite and MARITIME assets. The mission is authorised to carry out inspections of vessels on the high seas , off the coast of Libya suspected to be carrying arms or related materials to and from LIBYA. It will also monitor and gather information on illicit exports from Libya of petroleum products . It will contribute to capacity building of the LIBYAN CG and NAVY in law enforcement tasks at sea. They will also disrupt the business model of people smuggling through information gathering and MAPs . It sounds like a perfect job for a ship like P31 as designed with on board helicopter. I think our personnel have already been involved and are just continuing. This could be a little hotter if you have to board a vessel carrying arms deemed illegal , under resistance by the crew, who could be Russian. We need to be equipped to handle the level of enforcement envisaged under the Common Security and Defence Policy mandated by the EU/UN
    In other words the same as Op Sophia

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    This Operation is to enforce the UN arms embargo on LIBYA through direct implementation at Sea using Aerial, Satellite and MARITIME assets. The mission is authorised to carry out inspections of vessels on the high seas , off the coast of Libya suspected to be carrying arms or related materials to and from LIBYA. It will also monitor and gather information on illicit exports from Libya of petroleum products . It will contribute to capacity building of the LIBYAN CG and NAVY in law enforcement tasks at sea. They will also disrupt the business model of people smuggling through information gathering and MAPs . It sounds like a perfect job for a ship like P31 as designed with on board helicopter. I think our personnel have already been involved and are just continuing. This could be a little hotter if you have to board a vessel carrying arms deemed illegal , under resistance by the crew, who could be Russian. We need to be equipped to handle the level of enforcement envisaged under the Common Security and Defence Policy mandated by the EU/UN

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  • DeV
    replied
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...t-1001198.html

    2/3 personnel for Operation Irini

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  • A/TEL
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If we are asked by the EU, we should comply with the newly emerging refitted ship, but upgrade her secondary 20mm to 30mm. Ensure that our NS is represented operationally in the HQ to agree and match taskings to capability.

    That won't be happening in the near future.

    If upgrades in secondary weaponry are happening, the P60s will be first to receive it.

    The P50s are not ideal for overseas tasking in respect of Command and Control. The P60s are more suitable to overseas missions.

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
    Not with ships in operational reserve and manning issues.

    The roles are similar to Op Sophia which the NS were a part of.

    There would certainly be a role there for an NS ship if we could supply one.
    If we are asked by the EU, we should comply with the newly emerging refitted ship, but upgrade her secondary 20mm to 30mm. Ensure that our NS is represented operationally in the HQ to agree and match taskings to capability.

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  • A/TEL
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.

    Not with ships in operational reserve and manning issues.

    The roles are similar to Op Sophia which the NS were a part of.

    There would certainly be a role there for an NS ship if we could supply one.

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  • Flamingo
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    She deserved to die in a SINKEX. Not as a vanity symbol for some local warlord.
    Now’s the chance

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  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.
    She deserved to die in a SINKEX. Not as a vanity symbol for some local warlord.

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.
    They were already core roles of Op Sophia

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