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  • If you were conspiratorially minded you'd think they was all part of the plan....degrade the NS, maybe the AC too until they can't function than privatise as much as you can...

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    • Originally posted by Sluggie View Post

      A class of NS recruits is currently being trained in Collins Bks by Army Instructors.
      Partially correct.

      A joint class of Army/Navy recruits is in training in Collins Bks.

      The Navy recruits are only completing the first module (shooting and marching etc)

      The remaining Naval modules are to be conducted in HB.

      They are enlisted as Naval recruits so no transferring during training.

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      • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post

        Partially correct.

        A joint class of Army/Navy recruits is in training in Collins Bks.

        The Navy recruits are only completing the first module (shooting and marching etc)

        The remaining Naval modules are to be conducted in HB.

        They are enlisted as Naval recruits so no transferring during training.
        Thanks for that. Good to hear.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          The Irish Examiner yesterday, highlights the continuing drain on NS Strengths and ineffective measures to contain losses of personnel. The Departmental policies have caused most of the problem and Service in-house efforts will not solve it. Trying to find trained replacements on High Street is Utopian, we have to do it ourselves from candidates recruited by continuous means.
          As I pointed out the management and narrow focus of the Department of Defence has sieved the benefits enjoyed by members of the PDF and their families. Provisions common to many Armies have gone but the one most causative of loss of strengths is lack of accommodation for families and personnel. The opening statement on housing in the British army states " the Armed Forces and families are able to live in high quality subsidised accommodation both in the UK and overseas, either at OR close to their place of work." JSP 464 is the policy document for the provision of Defence living accommodation. The classes of accommodation provided for is Single Living accommodation ( SLA), Substitute Single Service Accommodation (SSSA), Service Family Accommodation (SFA) and Substitute Service family Accommodation (SSFA). Obviously SLA is within barracks and if there is insufficient, suitable accommodation it is provided from the local market by Services Housing Office. Their future model FAM) to ensure a career and better work-life balance is by having the option to live in rented accommodation OR buy a home with funding from MOD.
          Last edited by ancientmariner; 17 May 2021, 10:37.

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          • Colonel D. Lee's piece in today's Irish Examiner says it all. From the heady days of the 1980's to a continual erosion of Mil. Spend to 0.27% GDP has left the PDF in such a state that other arrangements may have to be made in times of conflict. We are goosed and needed skills take months of training, provided you can get the right educational calibre of aware personnel. I disagree with his belief that the DOD are aware of Defence needs as despite the Acts requiring the Minister to raise , equip, and train an Army the opposite has happened with expediencies dictating purchases which often dump previous skills and abilities.

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            • I think the absence of a full minister for defence in recent years, the use of a junior minister to carry out the ministers day to day duties with the department, and the absolute incompetence of that junior minister in that role is a Major factor. The DoD told the Junior minister what to do, not the other way around. That was the de-facto situation since 2016, around when the current crisis started to show its head.

              Ireland's Defence Forces in the last chance saloon (irishexaminer.com)
              For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

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              • The Saga continues with a depleted naval strength at 709 personnel in November 2021, and 40 more in the pipeline. The forecasted outcome is another tie up caused by technical crew vacancies. There must be a plan surely for immediate implementation and a long term strategy to fill vacancies at least to 1990 proposals of 1250 all ranks. In the meantime run the ships on a non conflict routine. Keep scarce technicians on stand by to travel as necessary to fix Comms and radar problems. Give more responsibility to CERA's, promote to WO and appoint as Ship's Engineer officer where a commissioned engineer is not available. Pay them a generous in charge allowance. Upgrade CO's of OPV's to Commander, same as Brits, and LT. Comdr for XO's. Call up tranches of NSR and train full time on up to two ships. Parallel such training with a grading system to allow general deployment to ships. Some positive action is required.

                Comment


                • Any action is required. The minister is sitting on his hands, waiting for CoDF to be the silver bullet solution.
                  My maths (with help) tells me that if we only have an establishment for 7 of the 9 ships in the fleet, and we are down to 709, then in real terms the NS is at 50% strength.
                  1500 would provide enough crew and support for a 9 ship fleet. Ideally you want crewing at 150%, to cover illness, training courses, leave, overseas appointments etc.

                  Is it worth winding down operations in the short term to put ships to sea with full crew, or not at all? A DE competition offering wages comparable to that in the civvy trade after so we can get ships back at sea fully manned. Pretend its 1947 again, and we are starting from zero.
                  Because that's how bad it currently looks.
                  For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    Any action is required. The minister is sitting on his hands, waiting for CoDF to be the silver bullet solution.
                    My maths (with help) tells me that if we only have an establishment for 7 of the 9 ships in the fleet, and we are down to 709, then in real terms the NS is at 50% strength.
                    1500 would provide enough crew and support for a 9 ship fleet. Ideally you want crewing at 150%, to cover illness, training courses, leave, overseas appointments etc.

                    Is it worth winding down operations in the short term to put ships to sea with full crew, or not at all? A DE competition offering wages comparable to that in the civvy trade after so we can get ships back at sea fully manned. Pretend its 1947 again, and we are starting from zero.
                    Because that's how bad it currently looks.
                    Even if the CoDF is a magic bullet and if any government bothers their arse to actually carry it out, we're still unlikely to see anything at all change till next budget imo and even then it will be barely above the rate of inflation.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                      Even if the CoDF is a magic bullet and if any government bothers their arse to actually carry it out, we're still unlikely to see anything at all change till next budget imo and even then it will be barely above the rate of inflation.
                      More like two budgets time, if the Report "recommends" a Independent Pay Review, which IIRC was already being flagged by the government whilst the CoDF was being set up.

                      Forget 1947, with whats going on in the world its more like 1939 with the DoD planing yet again to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.
                      It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                      It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                      It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                      It was the year everything changed.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                        Any action is required. The minister is sitting on his hands, waiting for CoDF to be the silver bullet solution.
                        My maths (with help) tells me that if we only have an establishment for 7 of the 9 ships in the fleet, and we are down to 709, then in real terms the NS is at 50% strength.
                        1500 would provide enough crew and support for a 9 ship fleet. Ideally you want crewing at 150%, to cover illness, training courses, leave, overseas appointments etc.

                        Is it worth winding down operations in the short term to put ships to sea with full crew, or not at all? A DE competition offering wages comparable to that in the civvy trade after so we can get ships back at sea fully manned. Pretend its 1947 again, and we are starting from zero.
                        Because that's how bad it currently looks.
                        Impossible to offer a DE competition with civvy pay without offering the same to those already in situ. There would then an expectation of the same from the rest of the NS, then the rest of the DF and then the civil service in general...

                        If this could have been solved with increased pay for the NS in isolation, it would have been done. Problem is that that all the other civil service/representative groups would be making immediate pay claims citing how they are also overworked and under manned. It's not easy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          Call up tranches of NSR and train full time on up to two ships. Parallel such training with a grading system to allow general deployment to ships. Some positive action is required.
                          Practically all NSR are either in full time education or in full time jobs. I'm afraid you're not going to be doing a general long term call up of NSR outside of a full ministerial call up. Reservists aren't sitting at home unemployed waiting for the call.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

                            Impossible to offer a DE competition with civvy pay without offering the same to those already in situ. There would then an expectation of the same from the rest of the NS, then the rest of the DF and then the civil service in general...

                            If this could have been solved with increased pay for the NS in isolation, it would have been done. Problem is that that all the other civil service/representative groups would be making immediate pay claims citing how they are also overworked and under manned. It's not easy.
                            As a PS worker (and union rep) I disagree with that assertion. The DF, and the NS are on record as being way behind their seagoing PS equivalent in customs, fisheries or Mar Inst, and none of them are expected to operate when the weatherman/lady says "don't go out".
                            For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

                              Practically all NSR are either in full time education or in full time jobs. I'm afraid you're not going to be doing a general long term call up of NSR outside of a full ministerial call up. Reservists aren't sitting at home unemployed waiting for the call.
                              If Reserves were guaranteed JOB security by law and at least by undertakings with employers, then they should be available by 4/6 weeks notice. If reserves only turn up for holidays then the Reserve concept is a waste of time particularly for those of the PDF appointed as minders. We need them to augment or replace manpower.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                                As a PS worker (and union rep) I disagree with that assertion. The DF, and the NS are on record as being way behind their seagoing PS equivalent in customs, fisheries or Mar Inst, and none of them are expected to operate when the weatherman/lady says "don't go out".
                                You obviously have far greater knowledge in this area than I so I'll bow to that. In your opinion, do you think aligning patrol duty allowance with other state bodies will lead to much greater retention?

                                I may have misunderstood your initial post and incorrectly understood that you were stating that newer DE entrants would be offered a higher seperate scale.

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