manning levels, the future.

[Auldsod]

Right : ( after 33 years ) Are we REALLY going to try everything but what the reserve people have been asking for , seriously ?

I KNOW THE PDFS IN A JOCKER

LET US HELP ITS NOT EXPENSIVE

Any quick solutions that you would think would help?

I've been talking to recruits, it primarily seems to revolve around A: Pay and B: Better organisation and not getting screwed with ever shifting dates for training.

It's the recruits we need to appeal to and not the long service die hards (no offence intended).

[trellheim]

Right : ( after 33 years ) Are we REALLY going to try everything but what the reserve people have been asking for , seriously ?

I KNOW THE PDFS IN A JOCKER

LET US HELP ITS NOT EXPENSIVE

[Auldsod]

There was a time when the NSR were actively rejecting transfer applicants from people with civvy nautical qualifications because it would upset the status quo.

Hopefully things will turn around. A recruit class due to pass out in December so some new blood coming in. There may also be changes to some recruiting parameters next year which may allow for increased numbers. We need to be optimistic or nothing will change or improve.

[FLIPPER]

There was a time when the NSR were actively rejecting transfer applicants from people with civvy nautical qualifications because it would upset the status quo.

Where did that happen ?

[na grohmiti]

Its ironic. The NSR were held up as an example of how the reserve could function and integrate with the pdf pre 2012. Since the VFM and SFC the df and government have proactively disassembled everything that made it work and left the nsr on its knees. Now they need nsr to serve on ships to get them to sea and are surprised when there is no one left to go. So now they try to up the anti. They still fail to realise the fundimental problem. That running a volunteer reserve is entirely different to a permanent force. Motivation is not even remotely the same. If the nsr were running as it did in 2005, there would be bodies fighting to get out on ships like before.

There was a time when the NSR were actively rejecting transfer applicants from people with civvy nautical qualifications because it would upset the status quo.

[AC182]

Its ironic. The NSR were held up as an example of how the reserve could function and integrate with the pdf pre 2012. Since the VFM and SFC the df and government have proactively disassembled everything that made it work and left the nsr on its knees. Now they need nsr to serve on ships to get them to sea and are surprised when there is no one left to go. So now they try to up the anti. They still fail to realise the fundimental problem. That running a volunteer reserve is entirely different to a permanent force. Motivation is not even remotely the same. If the nsr were running as it did in 2005, there would be bodies fighting to get out on ships like before.

[trellheim]

Why bother having a reserve in the first place if you can't make use of them , why do they exist then , and how do other countries make use of their reserves .

Good question ? Who owns the answer ? The Government. That we have a reserve is laid out in the Defence Act 1954 as amended etc etc

Reserves have been quietly used on the Green side whenever the need was there , as reservists, as there is no provision to transfer over and hold the rank under R5, R6 or old A10 ( subject to correction on that ) , and during the 80s our FCA men on long fulltime had the same problem. Application for Mandays and payments of Grats would solve your income equalization on production of payslips

Amending A18 Para 21 would also help reduce the need for transfers

[DeV]

I suspect this is not specialists they want here but ABs ? Not that they are not somewhat specialized anyway.

I’d say both but RDF can fill very few specialist positions

[DeV]

Why bother having a reserve in the first place if you can't make use of them , why do they exist then , and how do other countries make use of their reserves .

Other countries do stuff like pay the same, employment protection, paid for all training, paid mileage, paid gym membership, grat/bounty, better comms, etc etc

They don’t restrict their reserves.... they encourage them

[trellheim]

If employment protection was STILL in place for reservists - it used to exist but was scrapped.

Also there is no income equalization - the bills still need to be paid for the family home which is doable on the civvy street but laughable on the PDF payscale . I suspect this is not specialists they want here but ABs ? Not that they are not somewhat specialized anyway.

[hptmurphy]

Why bother having a reserve in the first place if you can't make use of them , why do they exist then , and how do other countries make use of their reserves .

They have employment protect around their reservists, where a reservist can deploy for a given amount of time and know they have a job to come back to, they are also paid retainers for various levels of commitment during the training year...where as the DF and the government her don't really give a shit, but that might change in the Naval Service now.

Text messages have been sent out to serving members to gauge the level of interest.

I do not see what the reservist gets out of this other than increased sea time but then again if I was in my early 20s just starting out in the work place with no responsibilities this might just have been the thing I would have tried just to see what it was like.

If the employment protection legislation was in place a lot of guys would probably give it a go just to get away from their norm! If someone said to me right now , would I take a six month contract...I'd jump at it but couldn't afford the pay cut.

The DF have really shot themselves in the foot by not securing the employment protection legislation, only took 15 years to materialize.

[Laners]

Why bother having a reserve in the first place if you can't make use of them , why do they exist then , and how do other countries make use of their reserves .

[Bravo20]

It all depends on how they do this. If they move the reservist from being a member of the RDF to the PDF then yes, it is holding up an appointment etc. If this is a temporary thing i.e. they are brought up on full time service without the 28 day restriction then they are getting people in addition to establishment.

I do not see what the reservist gets out of this other than increased sea time but then again if I was in my early 20s just starting out in the work place with no responsibilities this might just have been the thing I would have tried just to see what it was like.

[hptmurphy]

The stupidity of the management that has allowed the shortage to exist in the first place even beyond the scope of poor pay etc is unforgivable. To surrender, under PWC, what was in effect the compliment of a ship, and then build new ships without factoring in a requirement to increase the establishment of the service is not about anything other than bad planning.

Transferring persons to whole time service from volunteer part time service is fraught with issues around, pensions and reckonable service for pay purposes , assuming that persons would take up the issue. You would have effect people moving to ranks that now cannot be filled by new entrants to the service thus blocking promotions which could actually fuel an even greater exodus.

There is no cheap solution, Tie up what can't be operate on pre 2009 levels of manning and conditions with reliefs etc, restore the pay scales to pre 2010 levels and then incentivise recruitment with bounties paid to people who actively encourage friends and family to join.

Short service commissions for suitably qualified watch keepers both engineering and executive branch, with bonus's paid on re enlistment across the boards. Reduce the initial five year contract for enlistment back to three and remove pension levy for those on first enagement.

The management need to take positive action, even if it means putting heads above parapets , to stop the decline.

[Bravo20]

They were initially called up for permanent service but some then transferred into the PDF. By whatever mechanism I don't know but it happened. One of the last Sgt Major of CTD East was one as far as I know.